Washington Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on January 14, 2008

The vote was 58 in favor, 37 opposed and 3 not voting

(House Roll Call 0 at House Journal 0)

Click here to view bill details.

The general population is already fed up with the tribal situation in this country; to pass such a law that gives tribal officers authority over the general population would not be a terribly smart idea.

There is already enough conflict with the bonuses the tribes receive without adding this to the mix. I live in an area adjacent to a reservation/casino. Guess who most of the people working there(including the law enforcement personel)are? You guessed it; NOT tribal members. Most of them stay at home and collect their percentage without contributing much of anything to the community.

They do not have the know how or expertise....They are not trained fully and it would become a court nightmare. Let us not mix. If they were trained fully that would be another issue. Let the T. police concentrate on the jobs that they were hired to do...and they do a good job. Do not spread them so thin

Non-Tribal people and property should not be controlled by a foreign quasi-government in which they have no vote or say. Non-tribal people deserve the protections that our Constitution guarantee, and which the U.S. Supreme court has continuously upheld.

I live between a reservations and a tribal casino. Currently, the tribal police spend the majority of their time speeding past my house with sirens blaring for no apparent reason. I often see the tribal police cars several miles away from any tribal lands simply driving around. This is what my tax dollars are paying for? In this area, the majority of the tribal police are non-tribal members. To me, that seems simply wrong. The tribe here has no motivation to improve themselves. They are completely provided for by our tax dollars. Isn't the focus of this organization supposed to be on the tribes? They are not doing that job well enough, so your solution is to give them something else to focus on? Why not teach them how to do the job they were hired to do instead of simply handing them an easier one.

McCOy is a freak- He clearly is not looking to the citzens he represents! This is a civil rights issue. 82% of my reservation land is owned by non-tribals and 80% of the people living here are non-tribals. If a tribal police officer can not pass an academy - they should be terminated within 1 year. They also need to up the liability insurance mandated by a tribe and have verification checks each year the insurance is in place. There is no manditory insurance $$$ number assigned in the current bill. The taxpayers will be left holding the bag- no doubt. McCoy is cocky and ready move any tribal juristiction move he can against the people he represents- with no regard to the current federal law. When will good Democrats wake up and smell the sour stench of John MCcoy.? I could run my dog as a demoncrat in his district an beat any republican canidate. At least my dog would stand up for the rights of citzens living in his hood as a good pac leader. McCoy is only representing his pac- the tulalip tribes and his new pupit the Sheriff John Lovick- who is in need of serious education on federal law pertaining to indian country.

THIS BILL IS A SHAME. RESPECT OUR RIGHTS TO HAVE BE PROTECTED BY AN OFFICER OF OUR GOVERNMENT- NOT SOME REJECT TRIBAL COP WHO COULD NOT PASS THE TESTS TO GO TO WORK FOR ANY OTHER STATE AGENCY. IF THEY COULD PASS THE PEE AND LIE TEST DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD WORK FOR LESS PAY AND OR LITTLE RETIREMENT? WAKE UP PEOPLE - WASHINGTON TAX PAYERS ARE JUST GETTING READY FOR THE FALL OUT OF THIS BILL. SHAME ON JOHN MCCOY FOR TRYING THIS ONE AGAIN-

The bill lists requirements for tribal police to follow the same laws currently required by sheriffs and police. However, elected sheriffs are not required to follow this. Most law enforcement entities have a very difficult time recruiting officers and getting them through the tests. Have you been to Seattle lately with all the marketing and they still can't get enough people certified. John was able to pass a law a year ago allowing tribal police to go through the same testing as other officers. With no benefits or marketing 45 tribal police went through the procedures and passed. I'm sorry you see natives as second class citizens, but inside we are all the same.

I am a Caucasian resident of Washinton State. I called John McCoy right before the holidays. He met with me the next morning and provided enought time for a good discussion. He is a good and humble man. He is open to listening to people and does his research. This is something that was supported by the Washington State Shariff and Police Chiefs. This is a bill that is also requested by local law enforcement so that they know tribal police follow the same standards. This increases their police force at no cost to them. I am sorry you are scared of people wanting to help natives. However, organizations that are not affraid of losing tax dollars for areas they don't serve are very supportive. Ask the Washington State law enforcement on the street - they will be supportive. Ask the political folks, well depends on where their heart is.

What are they doing? Tribal police have been there for tribal members. When tribal members, including John McCoy, call 9-11 no one serves them. There have been women attacked on your reservation that the tribal police have tried to help, but have no authority. Unfortunately, if you are native no one else will show interest. Maybe you would feel they were doing more if they had the permission to do their job. However, as the law stands, if they help someone it could result in all good evidence being thrown out and the victum being left helpless.

1. Any Tribal Police Officer authorized to enforce Washington State Law would have already successfully completed the exact same training as any other police officer or Deputy in Washington. They would have completed a polygraph and psychological examination, as required by State law. They would also have their training and records checked by the Washington State Criminal Justice Training commission, who would guarantee that they met or exceeded the exact same standard as any other cop in the State. 2. There are certainly civil rights issues involved in this matter, but they aren't against non-natives. Currently, Natives are 2 times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than any other race. Of the people attacking them, 8 out of 10 are NON natives. Natives are 1.6 percent of the State population, yet are 4% of the murder victims in Washington. In the area of rapes, 9 out of 10 of the men raping native american girls are non-natives. These stats from the Federal Study "American Indians and Crime", in 2002 by the U.S. Department of Justice. 3. Most Counties have 1 million dollars in insurance covering the actions of their police officers. The Tribes have from 5 million for small tribes, to 15 million for large Tribes. Why aren't people concerned that the Counties don't have adequate insurance? Under this bill, the Washington State Office of Financial Management would decide what a reasonable level of insurance would be for each Tribe; the Tribes would not have a say in the matter. 4. This elements of this bill have been identified as a "Best Practice" by the largest and most influential police organization in the U.S., and the world: the International Association of Chiefs of Police. ("Promising Practices for Improving Safety in Indian Country", published by the IACP and the Department of Justice) The states that have already passed this law have had huge success, and dramatically improved public safety for everyone. 5. This bill was discussed for days at the fall conference of the Washington Association of Sheriff's and Police Chiefs, who passed a resolution supporting it. They testified to that effect at the house hearing, and provided the legislators a copy of their resolution. The Sheriff's and Police Chief's of Washington have weighed and measured this bill, and found it to be a good idea. Sure, a few Sheriff's testified against it, (2 out of 39) but the police executives of Washington State as a whole found it to be a good idea. There will always be a few people in any organization who disagree with the majority; that's their right. 6. The Fraternal Order of Police, who represents the "rank and file" officers, showed up and testifed in favor of the bill at the house hearing, because they felt it would improve officer safety, and provide "back up" for rural officers. 7. This bill takes nothing away from the Sheriff's. They are still the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in their county when it comes to enforcing State Law. What this bill does is make it easier for the Sheriff to enter into an agreement to work together cooperatively with the Tribal Police, to improve public safety for everyone. That is what has happened in all of the States that have already passed this law. All the cops began to work together, and the criminals could no longer hide on the reservation. Is that so terrible?

1. the Tulalip tribes have three police officers who have been employed for 3 years who have not passed any academy although - did try multiple times. They are in police vehicles carrying guns. After an independent audit - you will find the truth. I will not list the names here. 2. The average wrongful death suit in the state is 12 Million. A non tribal can file suit against a county government - tribal governments hide under tribal sovernity. Non tribals have no recourse other than the insurance policy which is just a token to a family that now is dealing with a wrongful death. McCoy better clean house with the tulalip tribal police before he continues in - "his perfect" world - so out of touch- Your statistics are nice for a paid lobbyist for the tribes. IF A TRIBAL POLICE OFFICER - DOES NOT PASS AFTER THREE ATTEMPTS AT CERTIFICATION - TERMINATE ON BEHALF OF THE PUBLIC.

There is no language in the bill to clarify if a tribal police officer has passed certification. So if he pulled me over would he have a different color uniform or present me with a card stating he was legit? I live on the east side on a patchwork reservation were most of the population is non- tribal. I am concerned there is a loop hole for abuse - The public needs to be assured this is a real certified tribal officer - with proper credentials. The tribes need to protect the public and have language in the bill - that non certified personel would not carry guns.

I will be my slot machine revenue - those Tribal Police officers still employed by the Tulalip tribes are -- WIllAMS and or SHELDON Directly related the the board of directors! The majority of the police force is NON- Tribal. - So why work for reduced retirement and insurance benefits. If tribal officer is killed on duty - the insurance paid to the family is $10,000. If you had passed all the academy's and the state is in need of good officers why oh why would you work for the tulalip tribes?

Hello- My car was impounded 6 monthes ago by the Tulalip Tribal Police. I work at the saw mill on the edge of the reservation. I drove to the police station and directly saw my car. I was told I would have to go to the tribal court system to get the vehicle returned. And then I was given a list of attorneys the tribal court would only work with. This has been a devistating impact to my on how I get to work. And I continue to get the run around on were my car is an how to get it back. Please put in the law protections for non -tribals that impounds will go to the nearest city or county. I have spoken to people who have never had there car returned- Just take a look behind the Tulalip Tribal Police Station. Tribal Members get theirs back right away.

My son, although he may have been speeding and not in good state of mind- Was placed in the hospital after being pulled over by tribal police near our home. The police officers - and I say 4 total. used exessive force and tazzers on my son. They had him on the ground and continued to tazzer him. No charges were filed against my son other than speeding. I have no recourse to defend my son's rights to have our local tribal police explain the exessive use of force. We now avoid the reservation at all cost as the average citizen with a teenage son could have this happen. I am not defending my son. Only stating - Tazzers should not be in the hands of Tribal Police Officers - who have room for abuse.

You stated Natives at 2 times more likely to be a victum of a violent crime- You failed to state the rest of the story- natives living on the reservations on 4 times more likey to deal drugs-(Seattle Times- Lummi research -) Oxycodine perscription drugs and Meth. I live on a reservation - my community watch group has repeatly turned known drug dealers with evidence over to Tribal Police and the dealer is allowed to continue - due to strong family ties to the board of directors. who pay the tribal police and the tribal court system. Certain relatives are given a pass. You need to wake up to your reality that your number 4% of the murders of Tribal members statewide are directly related to reservation drug activity. Clean up the drugs! in your own house. Just because a tribal member has connections to a board member treat everyone the same! NO special privlages. We need to fight drugs not each other.

He stated what does this have to do with Tribal issues? Yea- I met the man in his Olympia office after I drove 2 hours. Yea - I met the man who has a closed door to any non - tribal who get in his way.

ALthought some of your tribal police will pass some academy. There is NO language that ALL tribal police offices must have pasted the same training as other state of washington law enforcement.. So many non - cerified could be employed right along side with ones that did - all carrying guns and chasing down citizens. Change the language to ensure safety- no one is going to check how many tribal police may be employed vs who has passed. Just one mistake could cost a family a great deal. Be wise and protect us.

I was pat searched, hand cuffed, and taken for nearly a 10 mile drive down a dark road by a male tribal police officer. This treatment would have never been allowed else where. I am told they can pretty much do what they want, so I have no legal avenue. I fear what will happen if this bill passes

How can the Legislature impose something on someone else's sovereign land?

When I read many of the remarks people write on this site I wonder if we will ever be able to work together. It makes me sick to my stomach to see the feelings people express toward tribal law enforcement. Racism and Discrimination are the two main words that come to my mind. Tribal cops should not be allowed to carry Tazers! Tribal cops are nothing but rejects! I see tribal police vehicles driving around many miles away from the reservation! My goodness people this is not 1885, this is the year 2008, and we are losing the fight against crime! I take great offense to the degrading comments toward Tribal Police! They risk their lives daily for not just me, but for you also with little to no appreciation! I have a family member who is a Tribal Police Officer and he has attendend and completed the police academy along with numerous other trainings. He is a stand up citizen and has even served his country in the Military. He is a member of a proud law enforcement agency where they work very hard for the community they serve. People we must wake up and work together! I support the bill fully along with the Washington Association of Police Chiefs and Sheriffs! Who wins, (the citizens). Who loses, (the criminals).

The issue of this bill has nothing to do about Race- Only about public safety. I am personally offended everytime a citizen questions - Anything about tribal special treatment and or the fact they hide under tribal soverighty and a 100 plus year old treaty of 1855 the Tribes use the race card! I am personally for the bill as long as 100% of the tribal officers are required to be certified and the tribes wave soverignty so they can be sued like any other government - You have pay to play. So call me a racist I am happy to take that title as long as the public is protect from abuse. Yes we must work together- So we can fight crime and protect the public at the same time. Happy to be called a Racist- I am a native american- But American first and formost.

Thank you for the post on your husband. I am sure you are proud of his service to the community. You are one of the lucky ones. We have good many of dedicated tribal cops on our reservation and as a non tribal I am happy to have them here protecting us and they do a great job. I am in favor of the bill as long as the protections are put in place for that 1 or2 or 3 tribal officers that may not have passed an academy and may be employed for a small tribe who has little oversight. The protections must be in place for the public with regard to 100% of any tribal police force must be certified and have passed the washington state academy. Insurance must also cover the average citizen who just may get that one off cop who may have cause for abuse. A citezen can sue a city/county or state. The potencital for abuse needs to be cleaned up in this bill for the good of the overall program. Thank you and thank your husband for his dedication.

I read about all the comments and concerns in reference to this proposed Tribal Police Officers Bill. I must say that I was pretty shocked to see all the negativity. After reading this story I walked down the street to my neighbor who just happens to be a Police Officer employed by a Tribe and talked with him about the bill and all the negativity and his job. My neighbor said he too read about the bill and was not at all surprised by it. He said this is an on going battle that in all likely hood will never be won . He explained that the State Law Enforcement Officials treat Police Officers employed by Tribal Governments like second class citizens. I asked him what he means by that. He said the state has granted police officer powers to private companion (railroad police) and colleges. He showed me all of the certificates he is required to have and many he is not required to have but does. I should add that every one he showed me was issued from the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission. He explained that if his department hires a new officer that needs to go to the police academy, the State of Washington tells them they will have to wait until there is an open spot. He said they tried to get an officer into the academy once and after 5 tries and 5 rejections from the State they had to send the officer out of state. I was pretty shocked by this because that seems to be the biggest area that everyone is complaining about and it is the State of Washington causing the problem not the Tribe. He explained that the State of Washington charges Tribes who send new officer to the basic academy, but does not charge a city or county and even thought they have to pay they still can not get into an academy class. I called the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission and asked about this. Sure you bet, there is a back log of about 200 officers so the chance of a new Police Officer from a Tribal Government getting in is slim to none. They said is due to lack of funding. Funding?, not no cost for a city or county, but the state will charge a Tribe to attend, but they can't attend because there are not enought classes because there is no money? Where is the logic in this????????????? He began telling me stories about his day to day life and the types of call he goes on. Stuff like pulling a car over and learning that the driver is under the influence and is a Non Native American. Then calling for a State Police Officer to take over for him because the State and County tells him he can't do anything but detain the drive, only to be told that no one can respond to the scene of the stop and the only thing he can do is give the suspected drunk driver a ride home. Now remember a few minutes ago you read about the certificates he showed me at his home, well two of them were for Standardized Field Sobriety Testing and Drugs that Impair Driving and he even showed me a card issued to him by the Washington State Patrol that allows him to use the BAC Datamaster breath machines. I have to say that I was pretty shocked to learn that even thought he had the same training that every city, county and state trooper has, he could only give the person a ride home. I was even more shocked to learn that in the county he works in, the Sheriff office and county prosecutor's office allow security guards at a mall to arrest people who shoplift, search them for evidence and send a report to the prosecutor's office for charging but he the fully trained police officer can not. What is the logic in this???????????? I read in the Tacoma News Tribune that The Washington State Sheriffs Association is opposed to this bill? Are you kidding me? So we the law abiding citizens of the state have to suffer because a Sheriff does not like the bill. I think that people who live in glass houses should not throw boulders and the Sheriffs Association should clean is house before it tells others what to do. So if I choose to live on a Indian Reservation in this state and I call 911 for help and only a deputy can help me? Where is the logic in this. Lets see, someone called 911 from a house in Carnation and too Lazy Deputy Sheriffs responded and did nothing, and what happened there? A whole family was killed thats what. I have seen and heard the King County Sheriffs Office say there was nothing they could have done to stop this crime and that the people where already dead. The last time I checked, dead people are not very good at picking up a telephone and calling 911 for help, so yes there was something they could have done, responded and checked the residence, who know maybe by some chance someone might have still be alive. A woman in Lake Tappes tells a Deputy Sheriff that a boy was drowning in the lake and he tells her he is not a life guard. A Deputy Sheriff is accused of rape after having sex with a woman on duty. What about David Brame, yup these are the Law Enforcement Officers I want to keep me and my family safe. Just about everyday, I open the news paper or turn on the TV news, we see a city, county and state officer in the news accused of breaking the law. People say they do not want to see a tribal police officer pulling cars over on I5, can you say $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ My wife drivers I5 every day to work and back. If she is hurt or killed by a drunk driver or a reckless driver and I found out a Tribal Police Officer was in the area and could have pulled the car over but was not able too because a bunch of Non Native Americans don't want to be pulled over for breaking the law, wow as bad has this sounds, the money I will make off the state after the law suit I will file. If we use the logic expressed by many in this state, then do I have to pullover for the Port Of Seattle Police K9 Officer that lives in my community even thought I am not an airplane or work at the airport. I have seen several times a Port Of Seattle Police car having someone pulled over on St Hwy 16, which if you are not from the area, it is about 30 miles from the airport. Or what about the Fish and Wildlife Officer in the tan pick ups?, I am not a fisherman nor a hunter so do I have to pulled over them if I am speeding on I5? What about me driving around the U district near UW, I am not a student or work at UW so do I have to stop if a UW police officer tries to pull me over for running a red light or stop sign and almost causing a traffic accident? Or a railroad Police Officer, I am not a train nor do I work for the railroad, do I have to pull over for them? What about a Canadian coming into the US for a day, does he have to pulled for a State Trooper,? they are not even US Citizens so the laws of the US do not apply to them right? that is what you are say about the tribes. What kind of world do we want to live in if a Police Officer can do noting to stop someone from getting hurt or killed just because they have a different patch on his uniform? I see many people talking about not having the right to vote when it comes to a Tribal Goverment. Well again if you apply this to us Non Natives, I do not vote in Clark County, so if I drive there, do I have to pull over for a Clark County Sheriff?, I do not have a say in who is voted Sheriff so why should have to stop for them. Or in King County? I pay my taxes to the State of Washington, so if I drive to California, I am not a citizan of that state or pay taxes so the laws should not apply to me right? And let's talk about law suits. My neighbor showed me several case laws on the jurisdiction issued from just about every court in the land. None of them say that Tribal Police have no Jurisdiction over Non Natives, they say that Tribal Courts do not have the jurisdiction to prosecute a Non Native for a crime commited on an Indian Reservation. All of the court cases I have read and there have been many over the past few days (so I could know what I was going to talk about here and not out my foot in my mouth) all say that a Police Officer employed by Tribal Government can stop anyone to investigate a crime, they can search people and collet evidence to be used in the prosecution of suspects of a crime, just like every other police officer in the US. I even read one from California where a tribe suited the County Sheriff and in that case a member of the Sheriffs Department tells the court that to allow the tribe to have police cars would confuse the public and make them slow down while driving, HELLO is that the not the idea to have fully marked police cars that are visible to the public to people wont break the law. Many people say you can't sue a tribe or a police officer from a tribe. Have you even read the bill? Everyone is worried about the liability of a Police Officer employed by a Tribe. Where is the liability if a drunk driver can't be pulled over by a tribal police officer and my wife is killed? I read a case out of Idaho where an elected county prosecutor driving drunk on an Indian Reservation gets pulled over and tells the tribal police officer he can't pull cars over and then takes off and a pursuit is on. OH MY GOD, what are we telling people here, we are telling them exactly what Rep. McCoy said in the news paper that if you are a Non Native it is ok to break the law on an Indian Reservation because nothing will happen to you. Many say this bill is being forced on a county or a Sheriff, not true. I have never seen a County Sheriff stand up and say anything bad about a new city police department being formed, so what is the difference here? I find it very hard to believe that if a County Sheriff does not like the way a city police department is doing something absent violations of the law that he can really do anything to make them change but in reading the article that what it sounds like here they want to have a say in what a tribal police department does. If the state is doing all the prosecuting not the tribe how is this bad? How does the county not have a say? the bills clearly says anything involving non native American must go thought the state courts so again how does the county not have a say? that is my 5 cents

I have read this bill and hope it passes. The more police officers on the road and out protecting me and my family the better!

tribal police officers serve at the pleasure of the tribal police chief who serves at the pleasure of the tribal council, who have complete power over all of them, as well as the tribal judges etc. Non-tribal people deserve to be controlled by their own government where they have recourse.

You really believe that a Mayor or a City Council member or County Commissioner do not tell a City Chief of Police or a County Sheriff what they will or won’t do? I am a retired city police officer, and I can tell you for a fact what you are saying about the tribe is just as bad if not worst in the city or county governments. Example. The city I worked for, the Mayor owed a restaurant. One day, he was broken into so he calls for the police. Now, not sure if anyone reading this have even been a victim of a crime before, but if you have, you know that if you need a police officer you call 911 and hope one will show up sometime before you die. And if you do get one, depending on where you live, you might get6 a Police Officer, a Non Sworn Community Service Officer (CSO) or if you live out in the county, you might get a telephone call from a deputy who you are now bothering because you are the 100’Th caller during his shift. What do you think the Mayor did??, that’s right, picked up the telephone and called the Chief of Police direct private telephone line and guess what he got as a response???? That right you guessed it, he got a Police Officer, a CSO and a Detective. I know for a fact a small city here in Washington the police are not allowed to give tickets to any member of the city council or their families So who is this any different????? You say you do not have any recourse?. Recourse for what?????, To complain because you got a speeding ticket?, don’t break the law and you don’t need to worry about not having recourse.

The citizens DO NOT pay any taxes for Tribal Law Enforcement. The cost is completely covered by the tribe. This means average joe who lives on a reservation gets the benefit of having two law enforcement agencies work FOR them at the cost of only one. How is this bad. And for those who believe there is no certification you are incorrect. To be recognized by the state they are required to attend a recognized academy. And for those who believe we are rejects who couldn't pass an academy, I have attended three. I CHOOSE to work on the reservation because there is a great group of men and women at the department. If someone goes into law enforcement for the money they have chosen the wrong profession.

Why should someone who is non-Native be allowed to break the law just because they live on a reservation. This is the essence of what you are saying, that if you are non-native as long as a "real" cop doesnt see you do it you should get away with it?

No one said non tribal people should get away with anything. They pay state county and city police to watch their activities and police them as appropriate.

Non tribal people can elect a new mayor or sheriff or try a recall. Non tribal people cannot vote for a tribal council, a tribal sheriff or any other part of the quasi sovereign tribal government.

The Washington State Sheriff’s Association has testified against this bill.

The legislature is responsible to make laws for all non tribal people and land. Within the original confines of most reservations there are a mojority of non tribal people and non tribal land (Fee Simple - owned in whole)

non tribal people pay taxes for state county and city police protection and surveilance. They cannot elect a new tribal council or tribal police cheif no matter what he/they do. NO VOTE!

The Washington State Sheriff’s Association tesified against this bill.

Try reading the US Supreme Court case "Oliphant vs Suquamish Indian Tribe, 435 U.S. 191 (1978), where it was firmly established that tribes largely lack jurisdiction over non-indians.

How can McCoy even be a legislator when he has sworn allegiance to a foreign government instead of the state of washington?

Exactly. I'm quite sick of the way the tribes meddle in the affairs of the the non-tribal peoples/governments. They want to tell us what we can and can not do with our land, develepment, etc. But if non-tribal people question anything the tribe is doing, oh boy, all you hear is "sovereign nation" and "racism" and "treaty rights" blah blah blah. A huge case of "do as I say, not as I do" by the tribes. If you want to live word for word by the damn treaties, you better start living in longhouses with no electricity or other modern conveniences. Feel free to subscribe to your customs and take pride in your history, but stop expecting the best of both worlds. I don't care if their police are certified to the level of sooper-trooper; as a matter of principle I'm tired of all their shit. Does that make me a racist? If the tribes want to subscribe to all that "sovereign nation" stuff, I say it makes me a nationalist.