Washington Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on January 11, 2007

The vote was 30 in favor, 17 opposed and 2 not voting

(Senate Roll Call 0 at Senate Journal 0)

Click here to view bill details.

I want to ask Sen. Eide why we should change the law for the entire state when, perhaps, her own constituents see a real credibility issue with the Federal Way School District, while most other state school districts go the required distance for their voters? Is this an indictment of your constituents?

Super Majority 'Jim Crow' law from 1944. Discriminates.

I understand that a super majority is required to demonstrate the solid support for changes to core principles, e.g., constitutional amendments. But a simple majority for something like a school levy seems reasonable.

PTA of Washington and the League of Women Voters of Washington, both non-partisan, volunteer organizations, support companion bills SJR 8207 and HJR 4202. The voters of the state of Washington should be given the opportunity to vote on this Constitutional Amendment. All legislators support education. A unanimous vote for these two bills must be the result of those that support education. Let the people of the state vote to support Simple Majority. Jon T. Haugen PTA Simple Majority Chair

Launching quickie smears. The supermajority exists because not everybody pays property tax directly. It also exists for many local gov't districts, not just schools. Plus, Jim Crow was NEVER an issue in this state, much less in the 1940s.

I support education, too. I believe public schools should be accountable and adequately funded. But I believe without safeguards, property tax rates can be pushed beyond a community's capability to handle. "Support education" is the with-us-or-against-us drive-by smear of the educational industrial complex as far as I'm concerned.

A simple majority can well mean that a minority of the state voters can make us all pay for something we do not want.

How many Americans of Japanese descent voted on this constitutional amendment? None. They were all locked up at internment camps or fighting for this country in Europe during World War II. Discrimination was alive and well in Washington state in 1944. A vote on Super Majority is being held hostage by a handful of white male Republican Senators.

The founders of this state were smarter than most currently elected officals in that they provided some safeguards for us who actually pay taxes. Any tax increase should require a 'SUPER-MAJORITY' of 75%. If you do not own a home or other property, then you should not be permitted to vote on raising my taxes on my home or other property. Those who want it the other way are simply Socialists!

A minority can never win a majority vote, that's why it's called 'majority vote'. The only way a minority can make a majority pay for something they don't want is for the majority to not vote. Then they have no one to blame but themselves.

You're just using race as a cheap shot. No one, with the exception of YOU is mentioning Japanese-American internment and Jim Crow. It's about fairness and increasing turnout + accountability.

Wrong. The founders believed in one person,one vote. Majority rule. The constitution was CHANGED in 1944. Let the people of 2007 decide whether education is important. Super Majority is 3/5ths or 60 percent. At least check your facts before you post. "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

Changes made to the Washington Constitution in 1944 are suspect as they took place during a time of heinous bigotry. Why are you afraid of allowing citizens in 2007 to affirm or reject Super Majority? Unless you know that enlightened people understand that education is the most precious gift that one can receive.

Renters pay property taxes indirectly as part of their rent. Those who want it the other way are simply... time travelers. In the good old days, "...only white male property owners (about 10 to 16 percent of the nation's population) had the vote." States started dropping such requirements in the 1800s.

To really be fair about property taxes, only those who are "Stakeholders" should vote. To have a "level playing field" I propose that each property owner subject to the propsed levy have one vote for each dollar of Assessed value. It's really only the fair way. After that little change, I'd agree to a simple majority vote. Libertarian Larry

How is it fair to allow only property owners to vote on property tax issues? Should we allow ONLY business owners to vote on a state-wide minimum wage increase? Or maybe only crime victims should be able to vote on tougher sentencing proposals. Why are property owners assumed to be the only "stakeholders"? How about the parents of the children who go to public schools. They're just as much a "stakeholder" on this issue, yet they shouldn't have the right to vote unless they own property? I'm not sure how that's "fair" by any definition.

lol... sure thing, right after we change the law to only allow "serious" candidates to run for office.

All increases in taxes and spending should be 60%. Government employees should learn how to spend money wisely. They dump money down the toilet then cry for more.

We may not like it, but too few people make the effort to vote. If a school levy election is held in an off month then the cost of the election is much higher than a regular election when the ballot is shared by other government entities with bills and candidates. In an off month election, instead of a positive count of voters who want more money for the schools, the count reflects folks who don't really care because they didn't bother to vote. Taking more taxes from homeowners is like taking their house, it should be a thoughtful process, not one of default.

How many School Board meetings have you attended? Who are members of your school board? When do they meet? Have you ever run for school board? School levies are your local people deciding how to spend local money not some group of nebulous 'government employees'.

why not just lower taxes enough so that working parents could work less and spend time with their kids. Im sure some would rather help out at the schools instead of working over time. Then the schools wouldnt need so much money...

The mask has been removed from the Republicans. They do not support education. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Education is the paramount duty of the Legislature. Republicans failed the test.

It is ludicrous to say that the PTA of Washington and the League of Women Voters of Washington are non-partisan groups. The PTA will do everything they can to grab more taxpayer money for a bloated, wasteful public school system (32% of the money never makes it to the classroom). The League of (Liberal) Women Voters is pro big government and high taxes all the way. Let's be honest here folks.

How is it “fair” that those not paying a tax have the power to impose it on others? If you aren’t paying the tax, then what right do you have to impose it on others? How about a tax on children to pay for Government schools (those attending private schools are exempt), we might have more parents who are responsible for the cost of their children… I guess you haven’t read the Constitution, the minimum wage is un-constitutional and no body should be able to vote for it. (How about a minimum profit?) Crime is something that affects all society and punishment is imposed on a responsible party. Property owners are the only “stakeholders” since the tax is directly on them. If parents of children who go to Government schools aren’t paying property tax, then they shouldn’t vote on it. They may be a “stakeholder” in how the Government teaches their kids, but not on a tax imposed on someone because they own property. There is a miss-understanding that Government school has been teaching for years, that the Government is there to do things for you, pay for things, fix problems you impose on yourself, and generally make the World “fair”. That’s wrong, just read the Constitution to see what Government really has the right to do. We are NOT a democracy, we are a Represenative Republic! Libertarian Larry

Thanks for the Constitutional lesson, Larry. When the courts rule that the minimum wage is unconstitutional, I'll take another look at your post. In the meantime, I'll spend my time making sure that we protect our voting rights, not restrict them.

I thought it was the Dems who are in control of this state. Let's see THEIR walk eh?

If a Republican votes against higher taxes, why are they accused of being anti-education? Isn't it the Democrats who are blocking the most effective education reforms every time they do the education union bidding by blocking votes on vouchers and charter schools? Utah has just agreed to the most universal voucher program. They have the lowest per student expenditures. If their scores go up and their costs go down, then we'll know which party is the pro-education party.

Democracy is what Democrats favor. Let the people vote. White male property owners would be the only voters if Republicans were in charge. Democrats trust the people of Washington to decide education issues, Republicans do not. Utah is the Mississippi of the West.

I was beginning to wonder why you were banning my responses while allowing the flaming comment to my original post to remain. I now see that post is gone to and I am satisfied Thanks

This is a racist comment if I have ever seen one. If the Dems trusted the people of this state to decide education issues like you pontificate, then they should be fair in this trust; Fairness is letting the parents choose what schools they can send their kids to by allowing vouchers and charter schools to be included in the peoples choices not blocking vote after vote to get our antiquidated school system revamped. By allowing a simple majority of voters to approve taking money from particular groups (IE property owners)then any time the school district needs more funds to waste, they have an easier path by which to reach into my pocket. I personally believe in a more difficult challenge before I am dictated to to start shelling out my hard earned cash to support something that is broken; something that simple money throwing will not fix. If the Dems are so great (as you seem to think) let them step forward and allow reasonable alternatives for parents of school aged children to spend money on besides a corrupt and government indocrinating public school system. Sounds to me like you got your nose too deep into the socialistic feeding trough and now you want to widen the funnel that shovels in your social handouts. As for the comment about Utah, I must say that if you are not going to be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. And just how does Utah's approving of a school vouchers system make it the Mississippi of the West??... Yeah...Right.

Thank you for your comments, you are wrong. Democracy is every voter with an equal voice. Democracy is hard work. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Simple majority is a level playing field. Those who support education with an equal voice as those who punish education. Simple majority would restore the Washington Constitution. The Constitution was changed in 1944. Let the people vote on Simple Majority or are you afraid of democracy? You may send your child to any private school you bear the cost. Vouchers and charter schools rob from all tax payers. The state already voted "NO!" on this issue. Utah, per pupil spending 45th in the nation, the Mississippi of the West. My comments 'racist'? No (perhaps in your personal dictionary). My comments hyperbole? Yes.

Let's give all schools an instant 7 - 9% increase in their buying power by exempting them from sales tax. I've always wondered why they have to pay sales tax.

PTA voted in its legislative assembly to support simple majority for bonds & levies, without restriction to sept/nov voting. 8207 doesn't satisfy that vote. A recent governor's poll indicated that a majority of voters believe that K-12 education is adequately funded. Yet Education Week tells us that WA funds education $1B/year ($1K per kid per year) less than the US Average. Rainier Institute tells us that we fund K-12 $2B/year less than necessary to meet Ed Reform needs. The recent Picus Report and WEA analysis indicate that we're $3-4B/year less than needed to adequately fund K-12 education. Were a badly watered down Simple Majority bill (such as 8207) to pass both the house & senate, then get passed by the people in November, then the people would have even more reason to believe, falsely, that we have mechanisms in place to fund WA K-12 education at least as high as the US average, or to fund K-12 adequately to meet 1993's HB 1209 education reform's requirements. We should not be holding our children's high school diplomas hostage, if we are not willing to fund K-12 to *at least* the US average, and preferably to what at least two reputable studies concludes to be the level necessary to meet 1993 Ed Reform's demands.

Non-partisan groups support no political party or candidates. Both PTA and the League of Women Voters are non-partisan. PTA is made up of volunteers who support public schools and education. Washington Public Schools should be fully funded by the State. Washington has the only constitution that delineates education as the "Paramount duty" of the state. The Legislature has failed in this regard necessitating school levies (operating funds) and bonds (buildings). Both are funded by property tax. School spending is dictated by local citizens elected to school boards. If you have "bloated and wasteful" public schools it is your fault. Run for school board, write letters to the editor, get involved or sit lazily in front of your computer throwing stones and demean the volunteers of PTA and the League of Women Voters. Jon Haugen PTA Volunteer 24 year military veteran

The League of Women Voters "NON-PARTISAN" ??? Thats amusing.Thanks for the laugh.

So…I appreciate your analysis and the fact that in your wishful way of thinking you have come up with the determination that I am wrong. How amusing. Let us take a real look at who is wrong: Quote - Democracy is every voter with an equal voice …Simple majority is a level playing field. End Quote You seem to be stuck on the fallacy that we live in a Democracy. Our founding documents and Constitution will readily prove you wrong should you decide to actually read them some day. Therefore, I will not waste time with the specifics of our form of government; that of a Representative Republic. Our founders were acutely aware of the dangers of the so called simple majority. It was this travesty that kept many minority groups from having any say for many years and buddy, that IS racist! As another blogger pointed out; Tyranny by the majority is still Tyranny. This is exactly why our founders summarily rejected True Democracy when choosing our form of government. Quote - Simple majority would restore the Washington Constitution. The Constitution was changed in 1944. End Quote Yes, the Constitution was indeed changed; it was brought back into alignment with the Constitution of this country and undid many of the discriminatory laws and practices that were still in effect for Washington up to that time. Among those was the travesty of majority rule and the tyrannical oversights it inflicted upon minorities. Your opinion mirrors that of the Democrat legislators you keep voting in: They never see a tax they don’t like and if the law gets in the way, why they can just redefine it or supersede it to fit their whims. Since when did anything the *voters* have to say matter at all to the politicians of today anyway? Next Fallacy: Quote - You may send your child to any private school you bear the cost. End Quote Yes I can (and did). Now it looks like you want me to pay for your kids too by forcing your tax hike only on property owners like me. What a crock. The sad part is you really do believe that this makes the playing field level. Hate to pop your bubble but a level playing field is one that includes all people not just the property owners. (Your words not mine: Quote - Those who support education with an equal voice as those who punish education blah blah blah) Let’s expose more of your incorrectness - Next Fallacy Quote - Vouchers and charter schools rob from all tax payers. End Quote According to The Washington Policy Center (the URL is available to any search engine): Quote - As of the end of 2006 the operating expenditures for K-12 public schools in Washington have increased almost 92 percent in real terms since 1982, even though student population has increased by only 36 percent. In 2005, Washington taxpayers spent about $9,500 per public school student. In contrast, private schools typically spend around $6,000 per student. Even taking the differences in their missions into account, public schools still spend over 50 percent more per student than private schools, and generally achieve poorer academic results. End Quote Quite obviously, vouchers and/or charter schools would actually SAVE taxpayer money to the tune of somewhere close to $3500 per student per year while providing a higher quality education. Still you have the temerity to say that republicans punish education while in reality we are trying to improve the quality of education our students receive AND at less of the cost to the taxpayer than the public schools per student per year. Next Fallacy: First Quote - White male property owners would be the only voters if Republicans were in charge. Follow up Quote - My comments 'racist'? No (perhaps in your personal dictionary). My comments hyperbole? Yes. End Quote Not Racist!? That was a racial slam and you know it. I am amused by your pathetic attempt to spin it off when you are cornered by your own hypocrisy; and such a typical Liberal spin too. You do not get much more racist then you do when penning statements such as that. Sorry, your meager excuse to try and explain away your statement as hyperbole just doesn’t cut it. Nice try though and so democratic of you. You really do sound like a regurgitation of Al Franken talking points. Perhaps you need to find a different source for your brainwashing kool-aid. I will agree with you on one point you made: First quote - Democracy is what Democrats favor. Later quote - Democracy is hard work. Democracy is not a spectator sport. End Quote You are absolutely correct and you Democrats get plenty of hard work: -Shifting the blame -Dodging the questions -Running away from issues -Changing the focus -Shirking responsibility -Rewriting history -Jumping to conclusions AND -Raising Taxes All that aside; this Bill failed and rightfully so. Further comment to this thread would be like punishing flies by throwing feces at them. Keep your money grabbing hands out of our pockets.

Then how do you explain the queen in the governor's mansion. ALL TAX increases should be supermajority. If it's a good idea, then it wouldn't have a problem reaching that standard. And calling the PTA and League of Women voters non partisan (because they support no political party)...then by that definition, is Fox News ALSO non partisan?

“WA Senate passes simple majority plan for school levies”. Congratulations to the Washington State Legislators who voted in favor of restoring democracy to the Washington State Constitution. Finally those who support education will have equal footing with those who punish education. Education funding will not be held hostage to a minority of individuals. This November the citizens of this great state will be able to reaffirm the tenet upon which this state was founded: Education is the ‘paramount duty’ of a society. Jon T. Haugen PTA Simple Majority Chair

Schools can now get what they want and all on the backs of property owners alone. Renters get away without having to pay a dime. Want an education? Compare the amount of renters with school age kids to homeowners with school age kids. If this is Democracy...It's a lemon and I want my money back!