Washington Votes Forum

When they passed the internet gambling ban, *Nobody* spoke against the bill. They didn't even try to understand all sides of the issue - they just rushed this law out without proper consideration. If someone rushed out a flawed bill on 'healthcare grants' or 'technology assessments' that was unenforceable and hypocritical, I think people would "whine" about that as well. We are using our right to free speech to let everyone know that we believe that this is a bad law.

Nobody is restricting your free speech. You can whine as much as you want. It will accomplish absolutely nothing. Why? Because most of the folks on here do not understand process, couldn't care about the process, or won't lift a finger to be part of the process. That is why no one spoke up for your position...nobody spent enough effort to find out what was going on. This stuff doesn't get served to you on a silver platter..you have to go get it. This 'new' law didn't spring up over night. It went through the whole process. If you (collectively) were asleep at the wheel, you have no one to blame but yourself. The fact that everyone can post on here is proof that you all have access to the information. Democracy (and I'm sure there are more than a few of you who will scream bloody murder that this isn't) doesn't come to you. Bluntly-if you don't show up, shut up. Then go learn how to play this game....which has a boatload more skill involved than any game of online poker.

Unless they bash the door down while I am in a hand, how can they (the Internet Nazi's) prove that I was in Washington while gambling? ISP tracking? Doubt it. Contacting the offshore foreign company and ask nicely for records of a customer they make money off of? I doubt Cayman Islands Poker Inc. will comply. Chime in please on this topic.

Dear Fellow Felon-- Have you ever reviewed a recent hand by going to the hand history file. You may think that is stored on the poker-site, but it is not. It is stored on your computer in a file. Note that you can not bring up a hand that you did not play. PokerTracker the poker hand analyzer uses these files to construct their analyses. Felon #34692328 Yakima State Prison and former free low abiding citizen, taxplayer and on-line poker player.

Paypal is a sub of eBay and has ceased taking obvious iPoker funds transfer. Neteller is based in the Isle of Man and is not restricted. US banks have no means currently to track the nature or identity of recipients of checks or EFTs (that is what you do when you pay a credit card using your checking account). Unlike credit card companies that have to have a relationship with the merchant the banks have no such relationship. Enforcement is senseless, but you knwe that, Felon.

Senator Prentice--I am still on-line. Still gambling. Still winning. I have given your office my home address and telephone number. Come and get me. Ante up or shut up. Jimmy D., a felon with cards

Do you want to risk it? The police *are* allowed to get records from the ISP's when investigating criminal activity. I have a wife and kids to take care of - I don't feel like risking the wrath of the nanny-bullys of Olympia just to play poker online. I would love to be a concientious objector to this awful law, but the possible consequences are too high for me personally. I am taking all the money and time I used to spend playing online poker and learning the political process in order to punish those who supported this law and help those who voted against it. Each person is in a different position and should respond to this bad legislation in whatever way they feel is best. I personally hope to have a lot of online players doing what I am doing - getting involved in the political process and working against people like Senator Prentice. If you want to take the risk that the authorities won't find you and punish you - that is your choice. If I were single and had no committments - I would love to join that guy who wants to take his wifi laptop and go play low limit online poker on the steps of the capitol building on June 7th.

Robbery is a Class A or B felony and Second Degree Assault is a Class B. Not sure about all of the others, but in Washington state, those aren't Class C's.

Robberies are A or B and Assault 2 is a B. THe law is still ridiculous, but if you want to sound credible, get your facts straight.

I think you’ve made a big mistake and passed a ridiculous law: SB 6613, that makes internet gambling a class C felony punishable five years in prison, a $10,000 fine, or both. But I’ll give you the chance to respond. Here are my questions: Do you think internet gambling is the same thing as third degree child molestation? Sexual misconduct with a minor? Second degree theft? Third degree assault? Second degree extortion? Voyeurism? Why is internet gambling classified in the same category as these crimes -- crimes inflicted against other people? Is internet gambling really a crime equivalent to the deprivation of someone's property, freedom or well-being? Why isn’t internet gambling considered a gross misdemeanor instead, similar to other crimes such as trespassing that don’t involve damage to people or their property? Do you really intend to prosecute this law? Is there really a district attorney so aggressive that they will lockup an honest, tax-paying voter such as myself for playing poker in his living room? Would a DA prosecute someone under the "Three Strikes" law and send them to prison for the rest of their lives just for playing nickel slots at home? Did you know that I’d have to be convicted of stealing a car seven times before I’d go to prison under current sentencing guidelines? How many convictions will it take under SB 6613? Is this mostly a symbolic law? Are you trying to send a message? Make a statement? Or is this legislation simply a measure to protect our state’s lottery commission and tribal casinos? Do you really think this law was necessary to protect minors who aren’t legally allowed to gamble ANYWHERE, ANYTIME in the first place? Do you think your job is to protect people who might not know better? Or is it to represent those who make significant contributions to your campaigns -- e.g., tribal casinos? Isn’t it REALLY your job to represent the will of the people? What constituency do you think your representing with the passage of this law? Did you think there would be no opposition to this law? Do you not see the political downside? Whose side do you think the media will take if people are sent to prison for playing poker at home? I am an intelligent and insightful voter who has voted as a Democrat in every election since I was 18. But after living here for over 25 years, I am seriously considering leaving the state of Washington. If you prosecute ONE person under this law, my departure is an absolute certainty. I'm not blind to the motivations and nuances surrounding this issue, including yours. If you care to discuss this matter in person or over the phone, I will make myself available anytime at your convenience. Sincerely, Jeff

Storing hand histories on your local computer MAY be UNIQUE to one or two poker sites out there, but it certainly isn't the way the majority of sites manage their HHs. True, if you use PokerTracker, it will be creating a local file/database with your HHs in it. But god help us all if it comes to the point where Anti-Poker Stormtroopers are coming into our homes and confiscating our computers as evidence.

...is that it says 50x more than the actual law itself. How can a 100-word paragraph accomplish 2,000 words of results? If you read the law and carefully compare it to all the things Prentice says it does, you'll notice that she is drawing massive inferences and implicit consequences. For instance, the law does NOTHING to protect "vulnerable populations." That is simply HER interpretation and opinion about what HER law accomplishes.

In addition to a 25 cent bet on PartyPoker, other Washington State Class C felonies include: bestiality; assault on a child in the third degree; custodial sexual misconduct in the first degree; third degree rape; four DUI's in seven years; second degree assault; sex and labor trafficking; unlawful taking on endangered fish and wildlife; robbery (1 count); animal fighting abuse. 60 months in prison and a $10,000 fine seems more than appropriate for going "all-in" before the flop with less than a pair of jacks in PartyPoker $5 + .50 tournament.

Does anyone know whether the pages viewed at an iGambling site are captured on one's hard disk. Also is the duration, for example, at a specific page a captured item. Where can I find the files?

You are right. The iPoker sites differ in their approach. I have every Pokerroom hand that I have ever played stored on my hard drive in compressed dat format. Seems to be sufficient evidence to convict me. Only when I configured PokerTracker to capture the PartyPoker hands was that information captured.

I think that your LUST to play should be covered by a Class B felony, at least. That urge to take risks, must be stopped. How dare you even think about risking $10/week on iPoker. The mere thought of how you would change your betting strategies is culpable.

You are culpable by merely having the installed programs on your computer, whether you actually place a bet, because you are maintaining equipment used in transmitting gambling information. The three tests under the law as they reflect on an individual: However, the Seattle bettor IS A FELON for three reasons--(1) he/she is transmitting gambling information (bets) and (2) most often installs software to play at these sites and maintains equipment (modems and computer) and (3) receives gambling information (if you so set up the preference, some sites dump the results of every hand you play into a folder on your computer).

The following is sourced from the a local paper and dated May 27, 2006. "Gambling Commission Director Rick Day and Prentice, who sponsored the legislation, said the law is necessary, partly to protect the gamblers themselves. Online poker games invite organized crime and money laundering, they said, and it's easier for dishonest players to collude against unsuspecting opponents. And when online gambling operators refuse to pay winners their proceeds, some gamblers have said there is little recourse. It's also as addictive as other forms of gambling, they add, and more accessible to minors. Day said the intent of the new law is not to give agents greater incentive to track online gamblers and throw them in prison. Jailing small-time online gamblers is "not the focus of our work," he said. But he confirmed that commission agents had gone to the homes of several state gamblers (fewer than half a dozen, he said) about a year ago to warn them that such activity was illegal. No one was arrested. In fact, no one has ever been prosecuted in Washington -- or anywhere nationally, according to gambling publications -- strictly for gambling online. Day said his priorities are to go after national and international promoters or operators based in Washington state -- and increasingly, to warn gamblers about the risks and illegality of the activity."

As a fellow online gambler, felon if you wish, I thought i'd help ease the concerns for internet tracking from a technical side. I'm a software developer for a very large enterprise based in Washington (i'll let you guess which one). First of all, your internet history is tracked on your computer but you can erase it. But before freaking out, you should understand what is captured. You accessed PokerStars.com -- that's not illegal even with this idiotic law. The interaction you have between the hosting site, PokerStars, is heavily, heavily encrypted when you're playing through their client. Believe me -- breaking this encryption is EXTREMELY difficult (not to mention the gov't would have a lot of explaining to do if they did break it and the public found out). With this encrypted data, they cannot prove you did anything because they don't know what was being sent/received. So don't worry about that part. As for the ISP tracking all of your internet history, this is a valid concern -- but doesn't hold water because they cannot break the encryption. Transfering moneys to and from Neteller -- people do it all the time for other purposes than online gambling (ebay, online purchasing, etc). And we all know PokerStars would laugh at the US if they tried to obtain their user records. This law is for show - and that's about it. They can't stop people from online gambling any more than they can stop you from downloading pirated music, movies, games, etc. But of couse, they can't tell the public that. =-)

It's hard for me to believe that this many people actually want the internet to be used to frustrate states from enforcing their own laws. As long as on-line gambling remained a misdemeanor, that's exactly what was happening. What does it mean for the republic, when so many people are offended by the very idea of being governed?

First of all, I would like to say that I am totally against this bill. But I also must say that, technologicaly, it is possible to require that online casinos do not accept connections from WA. The technology exists, is easy to use and is not expensive at all. If online casinos are required to use such technology, soon other states could join WA. Again, I am totally against that, but it can be done - easily. So, I guess the industry should start working on agreements and regulations, or this could mean the end of online gaming. Rui B. Jr.

Hello. I am an experienced IT architect, and I know at least a couple of ways that could be used to enforce this law. Please, understand that I am totally against that bill. But, technicaly, this can be done. As long as the state can enforce the law against online gambling websites that decide to take wagers from citizens located in WA, they can do it. The websites would have to check where the player is connecting from, before they could allow any game to be executed on his/her computer. This is easily done, with several well known solutions. Now, checking if the websites are accepting illegal (i.e. from WA) connections, all they have to do is login and place a wager. Again, I am totally gainst that bill. But it has to be understood that internet technology does allow that kind of law to be enforced easily. Rui B. Jr.

Thanks. Everything you wrote supported my research--but you said it better and with authority than I could. iFelon

Somehow I have this strange feeling that Christ would support the ban...

What would happen to the state economy if you weren't gambling online here......

She is the only person that thinks that way? Odd...I guess the rest of the Legislature was under some sort of spell, eh?

Only Indian Music Sites Will Be Allowed. Use of any music site not owned by Indian Casinos will be a felony,.

Only state approved web sites. All ISP's will have to block access to any web site not on state approved list. It will be a felony to visit a web site not on the state approved list.

I like how she didn't address anything you actually said there. Typical of a policitian to take the topic of your question and just go on a rant about it. What is it with this country and gambling anyway? Stupid Puritans and their stupid quest.

The stupidity in this landslide vote is astounding. You'd think our elected representatives would have something better to do. What a joke.

This is only the beginning. The State and the Interent. They can't control it. They can't regulate it. They can't restrict it. They can't censor it. They surely can't tax it and that's the central problem. These Fascists in Olympia need to hear from us.

Margarita Prentice Her office number is: 360-786-1999 Her email is: prentice.margarita@leg.wa.gov

This is the most rediculous crap i've ever heard. Why don't you call the law the "We can't get our fingers on that cash so we'll outlaw it" bill. I'm seriously dissapointed in every one of the 44 that passed it through the house and the 95 that voted for it in the senate. I'm ashamed of myself for ever voting for any of you, Gov. Greg-common right wing interest-hore included. TOTAL DISSAPOINTMENTS.

Look to your right. Then look to your left. Which one of those people has had a sexually lude thought about a minor? Which one has ever participated in a gambling game of any sort? Now look in the mirror. Hypocrits.

Ban online gambling so we can get out there and drive on these over crowded roads, pollute this already dying environment, and pay these over priced rates for gasoline on our way to the casinos who most likely lobbied for this ban. God bless those government idiots who passed this.......Not!!!!

Some poor guy is going to qualify for the World Series of Poker main event or a World Poker Tour event, win 1st place only to have the WSOP or WPT disqualify him/her because they won their seat illegally playing online in Washington State.

Playing poker in a cardroom is legal while poker online is a felony?!? Doesn't seem like good "governing" to me. Our "governing" legislature also supports a lottery. Doesn't seem like good "governing" to me. Our legislators want to punish everyone because a few might abuse it? Doesn't seem like good "governing" to me.

Let's see. You use the Internet. You put up money. There is a degree of risk. You win, if your players do well. There is no carve out for this great pastime. Looks like a felony under the law which goes into effect on June 7, 2006.

As long as internet gambling was a gross midemeanor, the state was incapable of enforcing its own laws, or of regulating gambling in the state. By making it a felony, it MAY become possible to cooperate in joint ventures with other states, perhaps to eventually bring interstate gambling under control. You may not like it that unregulated gambling was illegal in the first place. That's not the point. The issue is whether the internet nullifies state jurisdiction. The fact is that in effect, in this case, it has done so, forcing governments to consider expanding their powers or else surrender to anarchy: that is - to allow the de facto dissolution of YOUR powers, as voters in Washington, as represented citizens of the state. The paranoid, populist ranting on this forum ignores the point. The state must be empowered to legalize, or the state must use its power to enforce its prohibitions. Not to do so would be irresponsible.

It was pushed through by democrats, the democrats aren't doing anything