“Take It Outside”

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

jemcash — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:04:31 GMT

I wouldn't say its that bad but certainly we don't care as much about each other as we used to!

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

ronie — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:35:26 GMT

I hate economic crisis.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

janko — Sun, 23 May 2010 12:48:14 GMT

We have crisis in every way.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

M_DragonKnight — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:56:43 GMT

Neither Jefferson nor Franklin were athiests, they were both Epicureans and foremostly both Free Masons as were most of our founding fathers (Free Masonry not Epicurean). The main tennent of being a Free Mason is believing in God, and thus "accepted the truth that it is God who affords us our rights..."

I hope that straightens things out.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

Pson383 — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:34:55 GMT

Hi Lainie,

I don't disagree that our nation and our state face myriad problems; I do disagree on the solution you propose. I'm more a fan of science than faith as a mechanism for affecting positive social change- something about the certainty that comes with empirically based interventions I suppose. That is neither here nor there.

Anyway, the purpose of my response is to clarify an inconsistency in your writing on this topic. Namely, your attribution that the founding fathers of our country "accepted the truth that it is God who affords us our rights..."

I submit the following:

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first, the religion of your own country. Read the Bible...But those facts in the Bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces...Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it ends in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787

While this certainly does not identify TJ as an atheist, it does raise the specter of its possibility, and further clarifies that he would most certainly disagree with the solution you propose. I say this because his advice clearly indicates that turning away from god is not problematice, but rather that this course of action should not be feared- but in all reality embraced! Insofar as it is the natural progression of one's own analysis of the factual/empirical/observable conditions in life.

Further:

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." - Benjamin Franklin

"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches." - Benjamin Franlin

Franklin, B. Franklin's Autobiography. New York: Rinehart and Co., Inc., 1959, 292.

Again, not wholly indicative of atheism, but certainly quite contrary to the views you express above. -In point of fact, Ben Franklin did believe in a god, but did not abide Christianity itself, as other quotes make quite clear.-

Ergo, the appeal of your argument by virtue of primacy fails. I would further propose to you that evidence-based socially conscientious practices provide the solutions we seek to the ills that you detail above.

We are on the same page with regard to the troubles we see our nation facing (in large part anyway). I sincerely appreciate your contributions to the public dialogue on our nation's social welfare, and I hope my response is not too affrontive.

All the Best,

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

Lainie59 — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:00:09 GMT

BlessedMomx2: Thank you for your post.

Being a parent is difficult. If you want to instill a sense of morality and right and wrong in your children, you are competing against the prevailing culture which has lost its way.

But you remind me that there are parents out there who will instill in their children a moral code and teach them certain things are wrong. While you are battling with a cultural norm that disagrees with both, you will still do what is right.

Your children are blessed to have you a their Mom.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

BlessedMomx2 — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:57:02 GMT

Thank you for this post. I agree with everything you've said 100%. Sometimes I fear for my children. They are bombarded everyday with corruption, lies, sex, violence, etc. and we don't even own a TV! I know that things will only get worse as the years go by and they become teenagers and young adults. All I can do is take responsibility as a parent, teach them morals, and make sure they understand the difference between right and wrong, truth and lies. Again, thank you for this. I will be sharing it with others.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

Lainie59 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:18:32 GMT

eddost thank you for your comments.

Each passing day it seems perfectly clear that those we trust to provide for the common good have failed us. What we shoud realize is that government is only as good as the people.

If the people accept corruption, favoristism, false notions of freedom, liberty, and rights, government will reflect them all.

We are on the cusp of destroying the principles and values upon which this country was founded although the attack against them as existed since our founding.

When we become a complete welfare state, a people who depend solely on the government to confiscate the wealth of the productive to redistribute to the unproductive, we will certainly bemoan the day upon which are apathy and indifference lead us to this dreadful life.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

eddost — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:37:29 GMT

I couldn't agree with you more on your moral and ethical crisis comments. These are sad days in history and, unfortunately, only promise to get worse. Our country has slipped away from early values of morality as the government bite by bite gains more control over what we eat, think, and do. They may not be able to change what we actually think but at every turn of the bend they and their liberal media friends work on overtime to try to influence our thoughts.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

Lainie59 — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:54:01 GMT

Thank you DK.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

M_DragonKnight — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 02:00:24 GMT

Lainie59:
Look around you and what do you see and look at the thousands of laws and regulations that the state and federal government have implemented to try to control the acts of men. Government would need few laws and regulations if it served the common good and embraced a moral and ethical premise upon which men ought to live.

Amazing post and I just added it to my favorites.

Thank you for being so articulate and forthcoming.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

deerhunter — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:36:54 GMT

Even as an athiest you can still have values, be a person who stands behind you word, wants to live a good life - not a life filled with crime and government interference or fear that there is no future for ourselves let alone our kids. Having moral values doesn't even have to have anything to do with believing in God; it has to do with having respect for yourself and for others. We seem to have lost respect totally in this country. My parents weren't religious. They didn't go to church and didn't make any of us kids go. But we got taught respect for ourselves and for other people and especially for our country. That sure as hell isn't happening most of the time these days! My kids got taught and now my grandkids are getting taught the same way as I did. My brothers have done likewise. This life could be all there is, but I can be sure I have done all I can to live a good life and teach my kids to do the same.

My son had to take a lie detector test done by the FBI to get the job he has. One of the questions he was asked was if he had ever taken any illegal drugs. He said "NO!" and said it with conviction. The same with if he had ever had friends who did illegal drugs. Afterward he was asked how he had avoided what so many young people his age found so easy a trap to fall into. He told them, "You don't know my mother." The Agent told him he thought he might like to meet me. Maybe more mothers needed to be like me. My son explained to him I had always told him we can only get the respect from others that we give to ourselves. If we disrespect ourselves by taking illegal drugs and breaking the law, we can't have anything but disrespect from everyone around us. Apparently it worked for both my kids. They are both good people, have good jobs, & good families. I passed on what my dad & mom taught me. Now it's their turn.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

watchingwaves — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:45:34 GMT

Hmmm. Sorry dude, I'm an athiest. But I feel your pain.

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

deerhunter — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:03:05 GMT

When you look at what we have allowed our children to see on television on a daily basis, the violence, the graphic and gratutious sex, we don't allow our teachers to enforce any kind of order or discipline in school, & don't do it at home either,then wonder WHY we have 12 & 14 year olds killing each other or strangers? We don't expect any kind of moral values from our President let alone our teachers or ourselves or our kids. Birth control pills, sex education in scool, abortion without parental consent... We have lost sight of the greatness we once had.When I was a teen and my friends were going off to war in Viet Nam my dad warned me that when they returned they would be ridiculed and turned on. This was in 1968! He saw the changes coming back then and was afraid. He said that I needed to make sure that when they came home I welcomed them and encouraged all my friends to do the same. He warned me not to get involved with any anti war movements, and I didn't. I saw how wrong they were. I hated what they were doing to our country and what people like Jane Fonda were doing to our country. Free love.... Timothy Leary.... God is dead.... and here we are now. What a mess! My dad is gone and I am glad he isn't here to witness how his prediction has come to fruition. We need to bring back some of the 1950's mentality so family has value, God once again has a place in our life, a persons word MEANS something and can be counted on. (by the way, I am a female. not only men are deer hunters!)

Re: We have a moral and ethical crisis

workindad — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:44:41 GMT

When I read your post I see its so clear, succinct, obvious and accurate that I doubt it can be swallowed by the contemporary mind. We may be too far down the rabbit hole for all this truth at once.....