Criminal Law

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

Proud Patriot — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:30:48 GMT

New member first post. I realize tis isn't the correct topic however I could not find the appropriate one. Can anyone tell me about HB 3359? Is this dead? If not is there an acitve petition to resit this? I feel it is a stepping stone to more restrictions and eventually removing our 2nd Amendment rights. Appreciate any info.

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

M_DragonKnight — Sun, 12 Apr 2009 05:17:41 GMT

bugoff:
There is a problem, not with gun owners but with judges and prosecutors who allow gun using crininals to plea bargain out of the law that says FIVE years jail if a gun is used. The lawywers and the judge should be held accountable and serve jail time also for that violation of law!! Legislators who will consider supporting this bill should get tar and feathers.

Amen to that.

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

rockwerks — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 04:54:33 GMT

Except as otherwise provided in subsection (6) of this section,
8 a person who, while at a gun show or event, offers to sell or transfer
9 a firearm to another person must be licensed as a dealer under 18
10 U.S.C. Sec. 923 and post the license in accordance with 27 C.F.R. Secs.
11 178.91 and 178.100(a).

This bill will make it manditory for ALL sales require a background check because it willnot allow anyone without a lisence to Purchase a gun without a background check. One could sell but not buy.

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

jason330 — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:45:28 GMT

Ok I guess I am getting an education on this too.

However I do think that "no questions asked" is what the framers had in mind. The second amendment says: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." It doesn't say that only the ones the govenment believes worthy of bearing arms rights shall not be infringed it says the "right of the people shall not be infringed" this is pretty broad and all encompasing as far as I can tell.

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

RosemontCrest — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:29:33 GMT

jason330:
The above sections of the RCW dictate how a dealer conducts business at a gun show. Same as in their place for business.
As you can see dealers are required to conduct a background check on every purchaser including when they sell a gun at a gun show. A private seller is not required to conduct a background check when selling a gun. However; try it, go to a gun show in Washington and try to buy a gun. You will find very quickly that you can not do so unless you are a member of the sponsoring organization. To become a member or renew a membership you must annually pass a background check. Without a membership badge every seller is required to turn you away and refer you to the membership desk to have your background check run.

Thanks Jason. I suspect that you are familiar with the annual membership requirements of Washington Arms Collectors (WAC). However, WAC is not the only gun show promoter in Washington State. There are many other gun shows throughout the state sponsored by these other promoters. The only requirements to enter these shows and purchase firearms from private parties is fogging a mirror at 6 inches and paying the few-dollar entrance fee. I attend such shows several times per year and have purchased guns at some with no background check.

By the way, I've been a life-member of WAC for many years and an annual background check is not required. The background check is only for new memberships or renewals. I haven't been subjected to a background check since the last time I renewed my CPL. I'm on your side of this argument, but everyone debating this issue needs to be aware that there are gun shows in this state where anyone can walk in and purchase a firearm with no questions asked and no laws violated.

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

jason330 — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 04:19:45 GMT

RCW 9.41.100
Dealer licensing and registration required.
(b) A dealer may conduct business temporarily at a location other than the building designated in the license, if the temporary location is within Washington state and is the location of a gun show sponsored by a national, state, or local organization, or an affiliate of any such organization, devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community. Nothing in this subsection (6)(b) authorizes a dealer to conduct business in or from a motorized or towed vehicle.

In conducting business temporarily at a location other than the building designated in the license, the dealer shall comply with all other requirements imposed on dealers by RCW 9.41.090, 9.41.100, and 9.41.110. The license of a dealer who fails to comply with the requirements of RCW 9.41.080 and 9.41.090 and subsection (8) of this section while conducting business at a temporary location shall be revoked, and the dealer shall be permanently ineligible for a dealer's license.

The above sections of the RCW dictate how a dealer conducts business at a gun show. Same as in their place for business.
As you can see dealers are required to conduct a background check on every purchaser including when they sell a gun at a gun show. A private seller is not required to conduct a background check when selling a gun. However; try it, go to a gun show in Washington and try to buy a gun. You will find very quickly that you can not do so unless you are a member of the sponsoring organization. To become a member or renew a membership you must annually pass a background check. Without a membership badge every seller is required to turn you away and refer you to the membership desk to have your background check run. Whether this is state law or not is a mute point as it is practiced at Washington gun shows. It should not become a state law to restrict private sales of firearms in any way. The system works as it is. We must retain the right to purchase and dispose of our own property without the interference from the government.

Do you think you should have to transfer a car through a licensed dealer? After all there are more Vehicle related injuries and fatalities in this state every year than there are gun deaths or injuries in the entire country and yet there is no mandate to check the driving record of a potential vehicle purchaser let alone a mandate to force a private citizen to use a third party who will likely use every transfer they broker as a possible bait and switch with a simple suggestion that they check out all the vehicles on their own lot before finalizing their purchase.

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

revjeff — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:48:04 GMT

Rep. Brendan Williams, you are an idiot, enforce the existing gun laws and get rid of gangs. The last 5 killings have involved gangs. NO gunshot deaths have involved law abiding citizens, it has been all gang related. Shut down the gangs and leave us law abiding citizens alone. If you cannot enforce the existing laws, then just shut your mouth because selling a gun (with a background check) to a person with mental problems is a slap in the face of the law. Soneday you will be asking for a law abiding citizen to save you ass and you might not have any takers. Get your head out of your ***. (dumbass)

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

RosemontCrest — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:45:19 GMT

jason330:
As it is now, every person who purchases a firearm at a gun show is subject to a backround check in order to be eligilbe to purchase but it is only required that they do this once per year.

Jason, please provide citations to your two claims: 1) That "every person who purchases a firearm at a gun show is subject to a backround check..." and 2) That background checks are required only once per year.

Thanks!

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

bugoff — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:53:58 GMT

There is a problem, not with gun owners but with judges and prosecutors who allow gun using crininals to plea bargain out of the law that says FIVE years jail if a gun is used. The lawywers and the judge should be held accountable and serve jail time also for that violation of law!! Legislators who will consider supporting this bill should get tar and feathers.

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

Twestby — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:04:31 GMT

Show me one instance of any firearm purchased at a Washington State gun show that has been used in a crime! You can't... If you can't then you have NO reason for this.

Legislators, concentrate on enforcing the current laws. Bring down the hammer on those criminals and crime will be reduced.

Quit wasting your time and our money on feel-good legislation that won't do anything!

Re: 2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

jason330 — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:54:58 GMT

Yet again, in the name of closing the "Gun Show Loop-hole" that does not exist, our state is trying to "fix" something that is not broken. As it is now, every person who purchases a firearm at a gun show is subject to a backround check in order to be eligilbe to purchase but it is only required that they do this once per year.

This legislation is aimed at:

1. Shutting down gunshows altogether as this will never work efficiently enough for purchases to be processed in a timely manner.

2. Eliminating the ability of the private citizen to sell legally owned property, which is protected under the Constitution of the United States and the Washington State Constitiution. Without being tracked by the government and taxed (fees to the Wa State Patrol).

The point of a gun show has always been so that the private citizen can lawfully transfer property without the need for a Federal Firearms dealers license as has been protected by state law. This legislation is a stepping stone to taking away the liberty of the private citizen and that is all. This does not make any sense for stopping gun crime as felons cannot purchase firearms at gunshows. They already have to be able to pass a bacground check! All that it does is make illegal something that law abiding citizens do every day accross this country and should be protected under law not limited, restricted, or taxed in any way. The wording of this bill takes advantage of ingnorance on the subject among the legislators and the populous to make it sound like a necessary step but all it does is make lawfull transactions more costly and allow big brother an eye into our lives where it does not belong.

VOTE THIS DOWN AND VOTE OUT OF OFFICE ANY LEGISLATOR THAT SUPPORTS IT!

2009 House Bill 2264 (Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events)

admin — Mon, 01 Jan 2001 05:00:00 GMT

Introduced in the House on February 19, 2009

Click here to view bill details.