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Latest post Sat, Jan 19 2013 2:20 PM by M_DragonKnight. 23 replies.
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  • Tue, Jan 8 2013 9:09 PM

    • admin
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Nov 19 2008

    2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    Introduced in the House on January 14, 2013

    Click here to view bill details.
  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 1:27 AM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    I totally disagree with this bill.
  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 4:34 AM In reply to

    • Jim G
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Nov 23 2008

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     Brilliant, so you want to require the law abiding citizen to be required to retreat and let the crimminal have their way. I didn't know felons elected representatives to represent them in Olympia. Why do you want crimminals to have more rights than law abiding citizen taxpayers? Whom do you work for?

  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 9:43 AM In reply to

    • calcan2
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Sat, Feb 25 2012

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     This Bill stinks. I refuse to allow a criminal to have more rights than I do. I am a law abiding citizen that works, pays taxes, and votes. I will not let some punk take what's mine, and retreat from them. What are you people made of, that you would allow this?

  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 9:49 AM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    So where do you retreat to in your OWN home? Your closet? You think you will be safe there? What about your children? Who is going to protect them? This bill is so ill conceived!

  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 10:20 AM In reply to

    • tommyrt
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jan 9 2013

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     I oppose this bill. Reducing criminal deterrents is contrary to the public interest.

  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 11:52 AM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    I oppose this bill. Where does one retreat to in your own house? This bill is ill conceived and given the fact that this state is a Sanctuary State and harbors illegal immigrants.. and that our own government in the debacle of the sting operation of Fast and Furious.. how do we know who has these weapons that they have sold to drug cartel and/or gang members from south of the border of this nation that somehow find their way to Washington very quickly. With the gang violence and lack of concern by this nation... I think passing laws such as this one are not in the best interest of law abiding citizens who have no other recourse in action other than to defend themselves, their loved ones and their property.
  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 12:46 PM In reply to

    • EFL
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Feb 9 2009

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    Aside from the fact that this proposed revision ONLY PROTECTS FELONS it has a major fatal flaw as currently written. It says "Homicide shall not be justifiable under this statute if the slayer knows or should know that he or she could avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating." So apply that to the scenario that happened in Massachusetts (where I grew up) long ago when they were perhaps first in introducing a similar law (the Massachusetts law had a mandatory 5 year minimum sentence included). A mother heard an intruder breaking down her door. She fled to the basement where there was a .22 rifle. In doing so she drew the intruder away from where her young daughter was napping. Standing at the bottom of the stairs, she ordered the intruder to leave. He started down the basement stairs and she killed him with one shot. She was sentenced to the 5 year minimum prison term because there was a door in the basement that she could have used to retreat. That of course would be leaving her daughter alone in the house with a criminal. Worse yet, her conviction and 5 years sentence was upheld on appeal. The proposed text above considers ONLY the safety of the "slayer", not the rest of his/her family members or persons present. Aside from being wrong because it ONLY protects criminals, the proposed revision is replete with unintended consequences.
  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 1:13 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    Our elected officials at their best!  Why do we keep electing these people?  Is the next requirement going to be that every home have a "safe-room" an owner, family or friends could go to?   Who defines when it's safe to retreat? Stand your ground laws protect law abiding citizens and all this proposed law would do is get law abiding citizens killed and give further rights to criminals and infact even empower them.  Please get this bill out to all your friends that support the 2nd amendment and gun owner rights. 

  • Wed, Jan 9 2013 4:05 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    This is an important topic and I think that the Sheriff of Lewis County has provided good information that would be helpful in discussing this proposed legislation. You can see his "Information on Use of Deadly Force" here: http://lewiscountywa.gov/information-on-use-of-deadly-force I am reproducing some of the Q&A material for convenience: Q: What determines if I am charged with a crime after a use of deadly force? A: When determining if an act is a justifiable or an excusable homicide, the totality of the circumstances is reviewed using a “reasonable person standard.” If the actions are found reasonable, no charges are pursued. If the act is unlawful, or there is ambiguity, charges may be pursued. In cases of ambiguity, it may be necessary for a jury of the person’s peers to determine the reasonableness of their actions. Q: Can I use deadly force to defend myself if someone is attacking me in my own home? A: Yes, provided you can articulate an imminent fear and the necessity to use such force. This decision will be weighed against the “reasonable person” standard. Q: What is the “no duty to retreat law”? A: Washington State has no “duty to retreat,” as precedent was set in State v. Studd (1999) and State v. Reynaldo Redmond (2003) when the court found: "that there is no duty to retreat when a person is assaulted in a place where he or she has a right to be." Washington criminal law embraced the duty to retreat for years and it was a disaster. The police and the court system have well established procedures for handling cases in which deadly force is used. The Castle doctrine was adopted because the citizenry was sick and tired of the justice system crucifying the homeowner when an uninvited guest broke into the homeowner's home, was threatening the homeowner, and was shot in the commission of the crime. If this proposed legislation is adopted, all Washington citizens cannot feel, and in fact remain, safe and free from the terror inflicted by an intruder. Under this proposed legislation, Homeowners who defend themselves and their families from an intruder(s) will always need to further defend themselves in court against the charge that they could have retreated to the dining room, or to the bathroom, or to the closet, or to the attic before deadly force can be used to protect themselves from harm. If this misguided legislation is adopted, the only result obtained will be greater protection for the criminal. The law abiding homeowners will be the losers and home invasions will grow in popularity.
  • Fri, Jan 11 2013 1:07 AM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    Current law is doing well, it isn't necessary to repeal a law based on flawed logic which then forces law abiding citizens in their rightful place of abode or employment to leave them and their security. Criminals should be the ones who should be at risk not the potential victims! Just because a legislator is in Olympia or Washington D.C. doesn't give them the right to subject our citizens to unnecessary dangers, just because of Trayvon Martin, whose case has been distorted by the media, to inflame public sentiment.
  • Fri, Jan 11 2013 12:35 PM In reply to

    • Twestby
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Nov 23 2008

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     Stand your ground should NOT be repealed. We should have the right to defend ourselves and our property against any invader. The only thing that repealing SYG is to give more rights to the criminals. Currently if an investigation concludes that there was a wrongfull shooting then the homeowner can be prosecuted. The problem is that the criminal rights activists want us disarmed and meek to allow their clients to do as they will and hope law enforcement catches the criminal if they can!

     

  • Fri, Jan 11 2013 2:35 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    Regarding House Bill 1012: Have you considered that a reasonable citizen who is facing imminent harm or death must stop to consider if he/she can safely retreat even if they are within their own home? Why must we give that much power to someone who, to a reasonable person, wants to harm or cause death? You have been watching too much TV. Putting our citizens in jeopardy because they must be certain that they won't become the victim of our courts is a criminal act and repealing the right to stand your ground only gives additional power to those who already believe they are above the law.
  • Sat, Jan 12 2013 4:40 AM In reply to

    • Jim G
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Nov 23 2008

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     Well said!

  • Sat, Jan 12 2013 9:51 PM In reply to

    • Jo
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sat, Jan 21 2012

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     Appleton is a white-bread elitist wanting only peace and harmony, kumbayah crap.  Get in the real world Ms. Appleton. We little peons out here need and WILL protect ourselves and families. YOU are a disgrace.

     

  • Mon, Jan 14 2013 2:13 PM In reply to

    • magspc
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Jan 24 2011

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    I for one is in the how dangerous a bill can be category. Don't you have anything real to work on for your constituents? You going to put people in harms way. Plus it won't pass. Your going to waste government time and $$$ just by submitting this. Go talk to someone other then lobbyists. What we should have is criminals beware law.
  • Tue, Jan 15 2013 2:12 AM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    This is absurd. Is this woman really proposing a bill that protects felons during the commission of a felony ? As another poster posted where are we suppose to retreat, in our own home ? Maybe I should let the felon chase me into my daughters room ? We can cower there together. Mrs Appleton, Withdraw this and let it die. Please do not introduce it again. There are a lot of good things you can be doing for us instead of this absurdity.
  • Tue, Jan 15 2013 2:01 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    Is the creator of this bill serious??   Since when do felons and criminals have more rights that honest law abiding citizens??  I would hope that our elected representatives have more common sense than to even entertain this proposed bill!!!   What are we becoming as a society if we allow this to happen.  

    Please stand up and vote this proposal down for the good of the honest law abiding citizens already at the mercy of a ham strung judicial system.

     

  • Tue, Jan 15 2013 3:05 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    All; It looks like Mrs Appleton DID pull this bill. After some research I found it was pulled and another bill was given the same number. Click Text and Analysis under the bill details. The new HB 1012 is " Increasing the penal sum of a surety bond required to be maintained by an appraisal management company ". After further research it looks like nothing pertaining to stand your ground is currently on the table. WA Votes needs to fix the page.
  • Tue, Jan 15 2013 7:45 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    Hi Everyone.

    Mr. Black is absolutely right. The bill had been prefiled as HB 1012, but upon introduction at Session start, it had a different title and subject matter. We have fixed that on the WashingtonVotes page. Thanks for pointing it out.

  • Thu, Jan 17 2013 11:35 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     Is there any way to view the content of the "original" Bill that Sherry Appleton introduced under HB1012? I've seen references to page 3 where she "suggests" one turn and run away from an intruder instead of defending one's home, family, property and self !!  Unfortunately, I can't find a trace of the previous bill on any legislative site.  If any of your members has the (former) Bill content, I would love to have a copy or be directed to a PDF that I could print out.

    I swear, the longer I live the more ridiculous "our leaders" become !  We must definitely Stand Our Ground !

    Carrie Sixkiller

  • Fri, Jan 18 2013 12:00 AM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    I have looked for this as well. I read a email written by Mrs Appleton that stated this bill was withdrawn and will not be re-introduced. Here is a piece that bothered me, greatly. Sec. 1. . . . (2) Homicide shall not be justifiable under this statute if the slayer knows or should know that he or she could avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating. Pretty much completely absurd. We are talking about a real life violent confrontation here, not some Hollywood movie. Typically these instances of violence will happen in seconds, and be over in same. Keep in mind what I copied and pasted was from a 3rd party. I would like to have seen the actual bill as written , it seems to have vanished and been replaced when HB1012 was assigned to another bill. If I ever find it I will post here, I do not expect to though.
  • Fri, Jan 18 2013 3:07 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

     Duane - there has to be a trace of the "bill as written" somewhere in the bowels of the House and by definition it is a public document. Let's just hope that they didn't flush already! ; )  While Mrs. Appleton may want to cover her tracks like a cat in a litter box, the document did exist and when I find it, I will share it. You are on the mark with you time element of only seconds passing in a violent confrotation. No Hollywood slo-mo in real life skirmishes. 

    I find it odd that the assigned bill number was moved to another submission. (Another effort to bury an embarrassing faux pas by Appleton?) Ya gotta wonder . . . 

  • Sat, Jan 19 2013 2:20 PM In reply to

    Re: 2013 House Bill 1012 (Repealing “stand-your-ground” provisions for justifiable homicide)

    CarrieSixkiller:
    I swear, the longer I live the more ridiculous "our leaders" become !  We must definitely Stand Our Ground !
     

     

    The simple solution is to "Vote the Batrastards out!"

    DK

     

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
    - John Wayne in the Shootist.

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