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Latest post Wed, Feb 8 2012 3:27 PM by M_DragonKnight. 17 replies.
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  • Tue, Jan 24 2012 11:45 AM

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    2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    Introduced in the Senate on January 23, 2012

    Click here to view bill details.
  • Wed, Jan 25 2012 3:08 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     Finally a common sense bill!  Why would we not want to verify citizenship for voting rights and state paid benefits? Why would we want to give criminals voting rights or free benefits if they are illegally here? Why wasn"t this always done in the past?

  • Thu, Feb 2 2012 4:08 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    These right-wing politicians never give up.  They are constantly trying to devise schemes to disenfranchise citizens who, based on demographics, tend to vote for Democratic candidates and issues.  Current law is more than adequate to ensure that only U.S. citizens are allowed to vote.  There is absolutely no significant evidence that voter fraud is a serious issue in this country or this state or that undocumented aliens even attempt to register to vote in our elections.  But lack of evidence never stops right-wingers from making up boogie men to scare the uninformed into believing the lie.

    The disingenuous claim by Senator Stevens that this bill is geared to preventing undocumented aliens from voting (among other things) is not based on a real problem that needs to be addressed, but on his desire to make it more difficult for the young, the elderly, the poor, the ill, the homeless, and students to register to vote.  How many of these people have a passport?  How many have a copy of their birth certificate laying around the house?  What about the other documents that Senator Stevens lists in his onerous bill?  He knows that by imposing these onerous and unnecessary requirements on this group of people, he will have successfully suppressed many Democratic Party votes, and make no mistake about it, that is what Senator Stevens' bill is really all about. 

    Current law is more than adequate to safeguard our ballot.  A signed statement under penalty of perjury (as required by current law) is more than adequate to ensure against voter fraud.  The proof of this statement is in the proverbial pudding.  The number of cases brought in this state alleging voter fraud are so few and far between so as not to even register as statistically significant.

    Your ultra right-wing colors are showing yet again Senator Stevens.  Go peddle your boogie man elsewhere.    

     

  • Fri, Feb 3 2012 1:00 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     Yes Yes Yes Yes....

    Only two things that I can say are wrong with this bill.... 

    The first:  It does not define illegal for the libs...  thus not explaining how illegals are breaking the law and have no right to be here or have special exemptions in the state law made for them....

    And number two:    It is sad that this bill needs to happen because of liberalism wanting to desoverign not only the state of WA and the United States, but also, the time that was spent on this bill could have been used in fixing the state's budget by cutting unnecessary waste like ORCAA....  But perhaps if this bill passes then it is the first step to saving the budget by not allowing illegals to have special treatment.  So we will see....

     

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
    - John Wayne in the Shootist.

  • Fri, Feb 3 2012 1:38 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    Notice how the right-wing crowd will not address the question of proof for their bald assertions of voter fraud by undocumented aliens and others?  Why you ask?  Well, the obvious reason is that such proof does not exist because voter fraud is simply not a serious problem anywhere.  So righties engage in misdirection and outright lies in order to mislead the public into thinking (or believing) that such a problem exists.  After all, they need some boogie man to fight in order to justify their extreme agenda.  This bill is yet another red herring by the conservative crowd intent on disinfranchising blocks of predominantly Democratic voters.

    It would not surprise anyone to discover that this bill was drafted by ALEC (the American Legislative Exchange Council), an ultra right-wing organization intent on feeding conservative "model" bills to state and federal legislators around the country in order to further its extreme political agenda and that of its members, mostly corporations and Republican/Tea Party politicians.  See http://www.alecexposed.org/ and http://www.thenation.com/article/161973/koch-connection.

  • Tue, Feb 7 2012 12:25 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     Jag,  all you need to do is to know that illegal is breaking the law.  Legal is obeying the law.  Nobody has said anything against LEGAL immigration only illegals skirting the immagration process.

    And jag, tell us what is wrong with obeying the law?

     

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
    - John Wayne in the Shootist.

  • Tue, Feb 7 2012 1:20 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     You and your right-wing bubbas still refuse to answer the basic question - where is your proof that undocumented aliens are "breaking the law" by voting illegally?  Give us the cases.  Provide any proof at all.  Don't just make an unsubstantiated assertion that undocumented aliens are attempting to vote illegally - you are required to prove it if you expect legislation like this bill to be passed.

    The reality is that you can't prove your assertion because the proof does not exist.  Your undocumented alien red herring (I should say it is ALEC's red herring - you know, the ultra right-wing organization innocuously titled the "American Legislative Exchange Council", but in reality a right-wing organization whose membership includes many multi-national corporations and a slew of right-wing politicians who receive "model" legislation from ALEC to offer in their respective state and federal legislative bodies) will simply not sell.

    Whine and carp all you want that your boogie man argument that "illegal aliens are the root of all evil in this country" is not being accepted by the majority of voters in this state and country, but until you actually provide proof of your assertions, you and your right-wing lap-dog politicians are going to be laughed off the stage.  If you want to be taken seriously, then act serious.

    Proof please!  

  • Tue, Feb 7 2012 2:22 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    jagjudge:
    Whine and carp all you want that your boogie man argument that "illegal aliens are the root of all evil in this country"
     

    jag, nobody said that, unless you subscribe to Obama being an illegal.  The United States is a soverign nation, Soverign nations have borders and are ruled by a set of laws.  Laws carry consequences of being broken, including crossing theborders illegally.  Illegals are breaking the law which, in spite of our questionable government policy towards them, and there are reprecussions for breaking that law, and such consequences need to be carried out and not have those that break the law have speical privledges (which seem to be this administration's mantra).  That is all I or anyone else is saying.  The rest of your rant is an non-existent argument that is going-on in your head. 

     

     

     

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
    - John Wayne in the Shootist.

  • Tue, Feb 7 2012 4:21 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     M_DragonKnight said, "... not have those that break the law have speical privledges (sic) (which seem to be this administration's mantra)."

    Proof please!!  What special privileges?  Specifically what about this administration's policies afford undocumented aliens any sort of special privileges?  Be specific please.  We don't need to hear more unsupported rants by yet another right-wing birther.

    Take your time doing whatever research you believe is necessary to provide us all with the "proof" of your wild assertions. 

    I anxiously await your reply.  While you are at it, maybe Senator Stevens will provide you with his "proof" supporting his false assertions in his bill.  

  • Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:28 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    Your ultra-leftwing sources are not very good to use as arguments especially considering they are wrong. I asked you to do a little research on just one organization, ACORN, and then come back and tell me fraud is of little concern. You also miss the underlying principle that the integrity of our elections depends on those who have the legal right to vote must believe their vote is counted, counted properly, and not eliminated by an illegal vote. There is not too much that should be done to ensure that integrity. Yet there is too much being done to thwart it. And it is the left doing the thwarting. There is no proof that minorities have been disenfranchised anywhere so that argument is bogus. There is proof however that the New Black Panther Party sent out members to iintimidate voters but are they being charged? Of course not. There is no common sense reason why voters should not be required to prove they meet ALL the requirements to vote legally. Using propaganda pretending its truth is pretty despicable.
  • Tue, Feb 7 2012 10:23 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     Lainie59 wrote, "using propaganda pretending its truth is pretty despicable."  Please give me a moment because I am laughing so hard.  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  You have been listening to too much Faux News, or is it Fox Noise?  What does
    Fox Noise have to say about the conviction last week on seven felony counts of the Republican Secretary of State from Ohio for voter fraud?  What about the undercover Republican operative who attempted to engage in voter fraud in one of the Republican Primaries a couple of weeks ago?  He is the same Republican operative who distorted the video coverage of his undercover smear campaign against ACORN.  Of course, Fox Noise would not even mention the truth of any of those cases because they do not fit into their clear-cut agenda of bashing President Obama and members of the Democratic Party. 

    What is clear here is that the only people who seem to be engaging in any sort of voter fraud are Republicans.  You can peddle your ACORN chestnuts and Black Panther lies elsewhere.  The only party attempting to undermine the right to vote is the Republican Party and its Tea Bag Wing.

    Current law requires all voters to swear under penalty of perjury that they are United States citizens and otherwise entitled to vote in the precinct where they are voting (the Ohio Secretary of State even lied about what precinct he lived in).  That is more than adequate to protect the ballot.    

  • Wed, Feb 8 2012 1:36 AM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    jagjudge:
    Fox Noise have to say about the conviction last week on seven felony counts of the Republican Secretary of State from Ohio for voter fraud? 
     

    So it's bad if the Republicans prevent voter fraud but it's okay if Illegals do?  At least have some consistency, jag.  Either it's good or bad, you cannot have or make a "special case" for illegals.  That is what we are saying.  Remember they're called illegals for a reason...

    Of course, the obamanation administration sees it differently:  Eric Holder Targets Voter ID Laws Just in Time for 2012 Election
    Wednesday, 14 Dec 2011 01:34 PM

    By Martin Gould

    Gaffe-prone attorney general Eric Holder came under new Republican fire on
    Wednesday after calling for an end to state laws requiring voters to show
    identification at polling stations.
    Read more at:  http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/holder-voter-ID-2012/2011/12/14/id/420986

    Hmmm perhaps, the WA legislatures is following the obamanation mandate?

     

     

     

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
    - John Wayne in the Shootist.

  • Wed, Feb 8 2012 1:37 AM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     How could this bill target Democratic voter turn out in any meaningful way?  (jagjudge's comment).  Does he mean that a large number of Democratic votes are currently being made by ilegal voters?  Aren't many ilegal voters voting strictly Republican positions?  His presumption that the ilegal voters are of a Democratic persuation seems to me difficult to prove without first ensuring only legal citizens, properly registered in Washington can vote.  Based on what jagjudge states, this needs to get passed, whether jagjudge is correct in his assumption or not!  I personally would hate to have any election results in Washington or the United States sullied by any form of voter fraud.  Let's hope your not correct jagjudge, and that all those possible ilegal votes are being made in favor of Republicans, not Democrats.  I'm with you!....    Or them.....

     

     

  • Wed, Feb 8 2012 10:58 AM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     Okay DragonKnight, let me repeat this real slow so maybe even you can understand it.  The Republican Secretary of State that I referred to did not "prevent" voter fraud, he committed it - he was convicted of seven felony counts.

    It seems that the only people actually engaged in voter fraud are Republicans and members of its Tea Bag wing.

    What evidence do you have that undocumented aliens are engaged in voter fraud?  What's that you say?  You have no evidence?  Let me put on my surprised look! 

    So, unless you and your right-wing cronies across the country who are offering these bogus bills produced by the ultra-conservative American Legislative Exchange Council and the Koch Brothers can actually produce evidence that voter fraud by undocumented aliens is a real problem that needs to be addressed legislatively, then go peddle your disingenuous, anti-Democratic, voter disinfranchising garbage elsewhere. 

    Fortunately for this country we have an Attorney General who will hold states accountable for complying with the Voting Rights Act - you know, the Act that the right-wing violently opposed because they did not want to give blacks the right to vote in this country.  You remember your proud traditions don't you? 

  • Wed, Feb 8 2012 11:18 AM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     PackNGPaw, either you are being intentionally obtuse or I haven't explained clearly enough what this right-wing bill is really about.

    The bill uses the pretext of "illegal immigrants" (I prefer the more accurate term of "undocumented aliens") as the ruse to make ALL voters prove their citizenship before being allowed to vote.  The methods of proof vary from a passport to a copy of a birth certificate.  How many homeless people do you know who are American citizens and therefore entitled to vote who carry around a passport or a copy of their birth certificate, or any form of identification for that matter that would meet Senator Stevens' requirements?  Probably close to zero.  Young students are frequently in the same position of not having the requisite identification.  Minorities (especially the poor) are also frequently in the position of not having identification cards or other documentation that would satisfy Senator Stevens' requirements.  Many elderly and infirm patients are equally challenged to provide the requisite identification.  The majority of these categories of individuals tend to vote Democratic, which is why the right-wing are trying to do everything possible to make it very difficult for them to qualify to vote.  These are all red-blooded Americans who are being targeted by the right for disinfranchisement.

    So you see, under this bill, ALL Americans must provide proof of citizenship that meets Senator Stevens' - actually the Koch Brothers' - onerous requirements.

    This bill targets ALL American voters - it merely uses the convenient whipping boy of "illegal immigrants" as its pretext.

    Voter fraud is not a problem in this country or this state.  I repeat, voter fraud is not a problem in this country or this state.  That is true for American citizens and especially true for undocumented aliens who do not want to do anything (including voting) that will draw attention to themselves.  If you believe that voter fraud is a significant enough problem to warrant legislative action, then prove it.  Provide the legislature with proof that voter fraud is so rampant that it requires a draconian bill such as this to address it.  You will not be able to provide any such proof because it does not exist.

    I hope I have made my view clear.  Please do not reply with the same old saw about how we have to prevent illegals from voting.  They do not vote now, so this bill is totally unnecessary to counter the ficticious evil that the right-wing crowd is using as a straw man.

    The only thing that you could possibly do to advance your argument is provide proof (I mean real evidence) that undocumented aliens are engaging in voter fraud.  By the way, if they are engaging in such rampant voter fraud, how come we don't ever hear about one case being prosecuted?  That was also true under the Bush administration when his hatchet man, Karl Rove, scoured the country looking for voter fraud cases to prosecute.  Not one of the very few that he pushed involved an undocumented alien.  Imagine that. 

  • Wed, Feb 8 2012 2:54 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    jagjudge:
    Voter fraud is not a problem in this country or this state.  I repeat, voter fraud is not a problem in this country or this state. 
     

    So jag, let's keep it that way and vote get a postive vote on this.  That way you can be happy that no illegals will commit voter fraud in this state at all.

    As for voter fraud in this state, the dems know more about it than anyone, after all, who found that box full of ballots in their car in the parking garage that had been parked for a week that allowed Gregoire to be governor.  What abut those thousands of registered voters who lived in one apartment which was a transiet hotel.  Dead voters anyone, Chicago was rife with them...  Yes, the AG was guilty but doesn't that make you wonder how many more are guilty and do not get caught?  If not it should, Oh and yes, in some states illegals do vote...  Which is what the laws of AZ, AL, NM, UT and other states are partly about also. 

    Let's keep it on the up and up and call voter fraud for what it is, a disrespect of the democratic process of this country.  If you believe and support the democratic process in this country then you should be in favor of this legislation, just so we do not have voter fraud in this state.  Surely even you can agree to that.

    One other thing, Paul Revere did not have proof that the British were coming,as he went on his ride to warn the countryside, but not only did they come they captured him...  Somehow I can see you during that time sitting in your house saying "you have no proof, of a British invasion...  And you no proof that they want to hurt us."    You may even have given comfort to the enemy because they did not burn down your house and later you could tell everyone that the Brits were here for peace, not to keep America from becoming a country as you would point out that the Declaration of Independence was treasonous to begin with... 

     

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
    - John Wayne in the Shootist.

  • Wed, Feb 8 2012 3:24 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

     Wow, DragonKnight, I really do not know what to say about your irrational rant.  The only thing that comes immediately to mind is that you are in serious need of psychological help - I sincerely hope that you get some soon.

  • Wed, Feb 8 2012 3:27 PM In reply to

    Re: 2012 Senate Bill 6434 (Concerning proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the United States)

    jagjudge:
     Wow, DragonKnight, I really do not know what to say about your irrational rant.  The only thing that comes immediately to mind is that you are in serious need of psychological help - I sincerely hope that you get some soon.
     

     

    So from your response jag, one can assume you are in favor of voter fraud by the illegals (as long as they are not republicans)...  Nice to know where you stand.

     

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.
    - John Wayne in the Shootist.

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