Washington Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on January 9, 2012

Click here to view bill details.

 What purpose does this bill ammendment serve?

 So much for consumer protection.I guess opening consumers up to fraud is more important than fixing the budget.

Vote the BATRASTARDS OUT!

The bill is meant for show cars and hot rods - not your everyday drive car.

M_DragonKnight:

 So much for consumer protection.I guess opening consumers up to fraud is more important than fixing the budget.

Vote the BATRASTARDS OUT!

I missed you at both of the public hearings in Olympia.  SSB 6005 is an effort to make the contracts for work on hobby-type street rods, show-cars, and antique cars possible to write legally.  When it is not practical to determine the exact costs of the work to be performed before the work is begun, as is the law for repairs to "normal" cars, this new law protects consumers by, instead, requiring detailed invoices and communication between the shop and the customer every two weeks.  Your marginal analysis suggests that you failed to read the bill before writing your comment.  In fact, it was owners of street-rod shops that suggested the amended language strengthening the consumer protections, and customers of this work stood in favor of the bill before the House Committee on Business and Financial Services.   Please note that Senator Jeanne Kohl-Welles (D), chair of the Senate Committee on Labor, Commerce, and Consumer Protection heard extended testimony on this bill and stood on the Senate Floor with special commendation for the attention this bill gives to consumer protection.  If you have constructive input on the bill, I encourage you to contact your legislators.  You could also discuss any concerns with the bill's sponsors, Senator Carrell or Senator Delvin.  This bill officially has no budget impact, but will have the effect of decreasing litigation in Washington's courts over issues regarding the failures of shops working on these cars to provide the impossible estimates required under current law.  If you disagree so vehemently with legislation benefitting our state, either act, or move.

 

Lee.Braaten:

The bill is meant for show cars and hot rods - not your everyday drive car.

 

Thank you for reading the bill.  You are correct that SSB 6005 addresses special considerations for customized and collectible cars that can't reasonably have the extensive work involved estimated in advance, and creates alternative consumer protection means.

charlypm:

 What purpose does this bill ammendment serve?

 

 The bill summary for the House of Representatives reads, "A written estimate is not required for the repair of any vehicle that:  qualifies for a horseless carriage license plate;  qualifies for a collector vehicle license plate;  is a parts car, which is a motor vehicle that is owned by a collector to furnish parts for restoration or maintenance of a vehicle that qualifies for a horseless carriage license plate or a collector vehicle license plate; is a street rod vehicle; or is a custom vehicle.  A customer seeking repair services for one of these exempt vehicles may request a written estimate.  A written estimate may be provided at the discretion of the repair facility.  The repair facility must advise the customer that the requested repairs will be furnished on a time and materials basis and will be billed at least every two weeks."

What this comes down to is that an alternative way of informing the consumer is being proposed for the cases where extensive restoration or customizing makes estimates prior to performing work impossible.  Instead of requiring the advance written estimate, it would be legal to contract for this work on a time and materials basis with the work described and billed every two weeks.

Oh, you mean it exempts the wealthy.

 And increses the insurance rates.

It kinda makes you think that one of the legislatures had a custom car involved in a crash and the insurance company didn't want to pay as much as the legislator thought it should.

Most car builders know you can fight the insurance company's estimate, IF you keep the proper documentation such as receipts for everything you did.

Lainie59:

Oh, you mean it exempts the wealthy.

 

 Obviously, this is a forum for disenchanted liberals, who want to blame those that have earned their wealth for the world's problems, so attempting to provide accurate information is a losing battle, but, no, that's not what this law does.  It exempts all auto repair shops (regardless of their financial well-being) from the requirement to provide a detailed estimate in advance of performing work on a car that is over 30 years old (among other qualifications).  Since old cars can have many hidden problems that won't show up until work is already begun, this bill protects those customers by allowing legal contracts for work on them to be done on a time and materials basis, just like work on an old house would be done.  Nothing sinister, nothing that increases taxes, nothing that costs extra money.  People with excess money just pay to have the estimates done, so, really, this bill protects people with limited resources and small businesses.

M_DragonKnight:

 And increses the insurance rates.

It kinda makes you think that one of the legislatures had a custom car involved in a crash and the insurance company didn't want to pay as much as the legislator thought it should.

Most car builders know you can fight the insurance company's estimate, IF you keep the proper documentation such as receipts for everything you did.

 

I'm not in need of a new pen-pal, so this will be final post replying to M_DragonKnight, but in the interest of others reading this deranged little forum, I write:

How does this POSSIBLY affect insurance rates?  The work addressed by SSB6005 has to do with customizing and restoring cars over 30 years old.  I'm unaware that insurance is available to pay for this work.  It has nothing to do with what any insurance company did.  What actually drove the move to adjust Washington's auto repair law was a series of lawsuits filed by attorneys against shops that informed their customers accurately about the variables involved in work on the old cars, but were unable to predict hidden work required, and when the work revealed that it would need to cost more than was originally estimated, the customers chose to file lawsuits rather than limit the amount of work they had done.

If you're looking for something to blame, blame the surplus of attorneys.  But please realize that not every change in the law is a bad thing.  This change is being driven by a group of people who are making the effort to change a law that is being abused to the detriment of hard-working people, and not just sitting at our computers bitching endlessly.  Why not try it yourself?

doyourhomework:

How does this POSSIBLY affect insurance rates? 

 

 So what I am hearing is that you are driving your hot rod without insurance, it is the only way this bill will not affect insurance rates...  That is unless, you are talking about the process of rebuilding the car for shows....  In which case most people I know shell out the money anways, despite the quote.  If the bill becomes too high (over 10%) the bodyshop calls the owner and the two work a new plan, if the customer doesn't like the new quote the customer has the option of paying for the work already done and taking his toy and going home...  IF the customer is okay with the new quote then work proceeds...    The industry does not need a bill saying that a body shop does not have to provide a quote.

The quote is a basic consumer protection.  It spells out what the garage will do for that amount of money... 

However, there is a school of thought among the gearheads that says, "if you can't do the work yourself..."  Those gearheads that do the work themselves do not need this bill, it is only those that cannot turn a wrench, weld, operate a sandblaster, and have good sense enough to farm out the work that they cannot do in their garage... 

Oh and I apologize for thinking that the insurance company will be involved in a rebuild...  This is how vague the bill is...  I thought it was only to repair what has already been rebuilt.  But of couse once the vehicle is on the road the bodyshop, oh never mind since we're talking custom cars that are over 30 and need to be insured to be driven, and the owners will have them repaired...  etc. etc. etc...  Never mind...

In other words this law will allow the bodyshops to charge whatever they want and not have to stick to a written agreement.? No matter how you phrase it this is a bad bill and does not protect the average consumer and will wind-up costing them more money.

It's bills like these that helped me decide to put my car in a donate a car program. I am not willing to comply with these rules anymore, it's getting tougher and tougher to keep a car, frankly and surprisingly my life got easier after I donated my car.