Washington Votes Forum

well it seems that we got through to them on this issue and got it put in the garbage where it belongs. Now then lets keep this bithing up, but lets move it on to these downright criminal fuel price increases. This is absolutly insane, and so are we for puting up with it. These Fu-king oil companies and their C.E.O's are getting filthy rich at our expense. It's no different than if they were holding a gun to our heads and demanding our money. And what's really madening about it is the fact that they are laughing at us all the way to the bank, to their Yachts, to Hawian condo's, ect, ect, ect. True this is a national problem , but it sure as hell hurts to know that Wash. is number one in high prices right now, and we can thank our sorry ass govenor for that with her 15 cent a gallon tax increase, on already overtaxed fuel. What a Bitch. 1.50 for Reg.. and 4.26 fo Diesel today. this is CRIMINAL !!!!!!! All it would take to bring these oil companies to there knees is to pick one brand name, Say Shell, then no one patronise any Shell station for One week, and I mean nation wide. Then move on and boycot another, oh lets say Chevron, then Exon etc.etc. Just keep rotating one week at a time. They sure as hell would be sreaming uncle before very long. This would work! It would take a boycot callender to be posted on the net. nationwide somehow, and even if only half the people would follow by it they would be playing into our hands with pricing wars before very long. Can you even imagine how much it would cripple an oil company to loose a large portion of its national buisness for one week? OUCH!!! It's time to pass the OUCH !!! on to them, make the bastards hurt, and hurt bad!!

I LIKE THIS IDEA A LOT! but did'nt you mean reg. at 3.50 a gal, not 1.50? It does'nt matter, I knew what you meant,so does everyone else, and you're right this would bring them to their knees. Something has to be done about these fuel prices and the crooked way they are getting our hard earned money, and this is the most workable idea anyone has come up with yet to curb these criminals. Give this idea some more serious thought, I believe you have viable solution to bringing down these ridiculous fuel prices.

There is no middle ground here, and anyone that thinks so is as fu-king stupid as the bastard that came up with this bullshit bill. Read all these letters posted you dummy. It's your kind of stupid shit ass thinking that lets these new taxes in. It's time to tell these bastards NO MORE taxes PERIOD. DAMNED these polititions anyway.

These damned democraps really are stupid. I wonder if they realize that they all have commited political suicide for even letting this bill get recognized? It would really be a justification to have all of them forced into the unemployment line. Then lets see how they like all these high taxes the dumb Bastards created.

Man oh man do I ever agree. Just when the prices are going up on everything the democrats want to ruin us completely. I do give them credit, if they can't come up with an old tax they will invent a new one. Did they ever think of supporting improved Mass Transit, there is a thing called "trains" in europe, you can can connect almost anywhere and you don't need a car what a concept.

Ya! What makes you think that the electric car you are driveing does not pollute. Or are you just to brain washed by your pollatitions and the media to know any better. Well more then 50% of the electricity in this country is made by burning coal. Plus what are you going to do with those batteries when you have to replace them because they will not hold a change any more? And god forbid if you have to drive farther the a 100 miles. It take quite a while to charge that little death trap you are driveing. Just keep praying you never get hit in one of those thing. Because if they have to cut you out of it. Well you might be in it for a while, if not forever!

Why don't you just make the roads that need repairs and upkeep into "toll roads" like they do in the East? It would make you a lot more friends and the way the economy is now, with almost a 20% increase in the first 2 months of 2008, Seniors only getting a 2% COLA, how are we to keep surviving?????? Forcing us to buy HDTV's and more things we can't afford, even medicines, Try thinking of some of us that are not as well off as you guys that have your wages, retirements, (if you were not foolish enough to believe the garbage bush handed out on his election crap), like do your own investing, etc. you are probably not too bad off.

Why don't you just make the roads that need repairs and upkeep into "toll roads" like they do in the East? It would make you a lot more friends and the way the economy is now, with almost a 20% increase in the first 2 months of 2008, Seniors only getting a 2% COLA, how are we to keep surviving?????? Forcing us to buy HDTV's and more things we can't afford, even medicines, Try thinking of some of us that are not as well off as you guys that have your wages, retirements, (if you were not foolish enough to believe the garbage bush handed out on his election crap), like do your own investing, etc. you are probably not too bad off.

People keep referring to the Govenor's gas tax. It isn't the Govenor's it's ours. The gas tax was voted on by the people and passed with a large majority. We were willing to tax ourselves for the benefit of our highways and bridges. Now that gas is off the wall, we blame it on the Govenor and the tree huggers. Please, people let's at least be civil and stop the sterotypes.

What the hell rock did you just crawl out from under ? WE DID NOT VOTE THAT GAS TAX IN. We voted it down, by a large margin. That B-TCH in Olympia just over rode our vote and inacted the damned tax anyway. Not only did she put that tax in illegally, but she also raised it from the proposed nine cents over three years to 15 cents over three years. She got that tax in just like she got in office, by a whole lot of crooked moves. That B-tch ain't my Governor, and come election time she's going to join the crowd at the unemployment line. JUST WHERE SHE BELONGS.

I can see right now that you are the enemy. You have to be one of those west side tree hugging, liberal yuppie democraps. That's right , I said DEMOPCRAPS. For you liberal's information, there is no global warming, it's all a bunch of proven crap. In the last 1000 years the global temp. has risen 1/2 of 1 degree, and this last year the earth has cooled 3/4 of 1 degree. So what does that do their global warming excuse? It blows it and their credability all to hell. Put the blame for this shit where it belongs, squarly on our tax and spend Democraps, and their Yuppie thinking. ( NO COMMON SENSE AT ALL ), and no reguard for anyone except themselves and what personal gain they will get out of it. So, to sum it up, you can take you're liberal way of thinking and shove right up your ass. WE HAVE HAD IT WITH ALL OF YOU !! and this comming state election will prove that. NO MORE DEMOCRAPS.

And you call us REDNECKS STUPID. Just where in the Hell did you learn to spell, you dumb f-cking bastard. And how dare you call us cousin screwing. I sure would like to see you say that to my face, because I would love to teach you some good old fassion DIXIE manners.

Don't take the attacks personal. I tried to inject a little sense into this discussion a while back . and got accused of living on the west side and being a democrat. Seems like unless you curse the governor you are labeled a west side demo. Its obvious people don't think things thru much when ideas for lowering gas prices like boycotting a certain station or not buying on Thursdays or filling up when your tank is half full instead of empty are offered as serious strategies to "hurt" the oil companies. I farm and I don't like the high gas and diesel prices either. Fertilizer has gone from $350 a ton to 650. Calling the governor names isn't going to fix that. Electing a different governor isn't going to fix that. Oil prices have been going up since the 70's, and none of the politicians since then have been able to control the oil prices. A little less emotion and a little more constructive thought would benefit this sight a lot. I anxiously await to hear your praise and accolades! Mike

The fuel prices in the 70's were .55 a gal. not 3.50 a gal. so where in the hell are you comming from ? And the idea of not buying from a certain oil co. for a whole week sure as hell WILL drop the prices. Do your math for christ sakes. And if it were'nt for that bitch we have as a governor we would at least be paying .15 a gal. less. So I really don't give a damned if you are a farmer of where the hell you live, you sure think like a west sidder.

 As long as people in this state keep pointing fingers at "east siders" and "west siders" and blaming other groups for our problems, we will never succeed in fixing the issues that affect all of us.  Partisan politics are what's ruining our state and our country's political climate and anonymous chat room responses like this are just a small glimpse into a big problem we face today.  There is not a "republican way" or a "democrat way" to fix every issue.  There is however a human way to solve any problem.

It's perfectly fine to have your own set of beliefs and values in political discussions, but try and project them in a constructive manner that works towards a solution.  Insulting people just makes the problems bigger.  There will always be people with ideals that conflict with yours, but if you pay those people respect and try to undestand their point of view, they'll be a lot more open to understanding yours.  This is how the lost art of compromise works.  Put your conservative values into some sort of constructive plan and present your idea on how to fix things and then be ready to recieve praise, criticism and rejection and then be ready to adjust your idea accordingly until a solution is reached that is good enough for all sides.

we all want the same thing - a happy, safe and vibrant WA State, we just might disagree on how to get there.

P.S. - boycotting an oil company for a week or once per week will have almost zero affect on anything.  Eventually we all as a collective whole will end up consuming the same amount of oil whether you buy today, tomorrow, next week, etc.  Until our country can accept a transition to an economy without fossil fuels and that transition is driven by free market innovation, we are at the mercy of the global oil market.  Work on the solution and stop pointing at the problem.

 Oil companies have less to do with fuel prices than we do.  It is proven that futures and speculators are affecting fuel prices.  Why do you think prices go up in the summer months.  Its just now becoming an issue with investigations into futures markets.  As far as a republican or democratic way to fix things, answer me this.  How come before the election both parties blame the other for all the problems and after the election the winning party wan'ts everyone to work together.  What they really want is everyone to go along with their plan no matter what it costs, or how really stupid it is.  If you want people to work together then you have to hear everyones voice and not just the voices in your head.

 again, you're focusing on the problem and not the solution.  oil companies and speculators are going to do what they are going to do and the market will reward them or punish them accordingly.  A lot of speculators and OPEC countries lost their shorts in the last 6-8 months as prices dropped.  Several countries are in big trouble because they gambled and lost.  OPEC and speculators pushed us all far enough that demand started to fall, something they never thought would happen.  once we as a collective whole made it known we would alter our habits, oil prices plummeted.  we can investigate speculators and oil companies, etc all you want, but the results don't matter.  if you want to fix it, we need to focus positive energy towards an oil-free economy and stop worrying about who caused the problems.  The solution is to get people to stop using oil, not punishing those that make a living from selling it.  Those who caused the problems will either change their ways to help or get left behind.
 
also, in response your question - "How come before the election both parties blame the other for all the problems and after the election the winning party wan'ts everyone to work together?"  Simple - people like yourself who get emotionally involved in political races.  We live in a sensational, media-driven world.  As long as there is a blame game to play, it creates good commercials, sound bytes and finger pointing debates.  it's what we all clamor to and makes us pay attention.  it's good for TV.  The other part is that our party system has evolved into a "who's right or who's wrong" system.  In most people's eyes there are two teams in politics and one side wins and one loses.  we treat politics like sports, rather than people coming together to try and achieve happiness and prosperity for everyone.  This trickles down to people like you and me that post comments online.  Read through those forums, 95% of the comments are just retorts or personal attacks at other people for having an opinion.  that is not productive.  it's not about winning or being right in politics, it's about making things better.  Good political decisions are not "all or nothing" solutions, they are compromises. 
 
your last statement - "If you want people to work together then you have to hear everyones voice and not just the voices in your head".  This is what I was trying to say to you in my original email.  I'm not sure why you said this really.  One thing I do when i enter into political debates (and yes I am active in politics and running for an office this year) is I try and debate the issue I am against as if I am for it.  I practice what the other side might say.  I try and understand why they want what they want and make a case for it.  This approach makes for better compromise in the end. 
 
P.S. - you should read the front of the Seattle Times today.  The democrats are already arguing amongst themselves and attacking the governor.  They are the party in power and they can't agree.  they are not calling for everyone to work together, they are calling for battle.  this mind-set is going to make things ugly for us all and it's because they are all engrossed in "who's right and who's wrong".

I can tell you from personal experience to NOT even think of doing this. Washington State will be on you so fast - I came down from Alaska with a truck licensed there (I used to live there). Someone turned me in and I was sent a letter saying I owed "Fair Use Tax" on the truck at current market value. This is to cover me driving on WA roads. I immediately took the time to read the WA laws (RCW's) and advised the woman I was dealing with at the Department of Revenue I did not owe them anything. She insisted so I faxed her high-lighted copies of the RCW. I called to confirm receipt and asked her if, like a lot of people, I would have written them a check to pay this without question, would they have reimbursed me since they were in error. She hung up on me. Legalized crime. Take the time to read the laws - it saved me almost $5000.

I grew up in Washington State in the 1970's. I really do not know what happened to my home state. I know Gregoire has perfomed so ridiculously inept and has caused far more harm than good - BUT - the people voted her back in to office. So, hard to point the finger at one individual but my state has become so liberal/socialist/anti-Constitution that I really do not plan on staying here.

HB 6900 is yet another bill with no thought process of long-term affects. Every time I turn around there is something taking up valuable time that should not have even been presented. It is sad, like someone else wrote here earlier - we all voted no on the gas tax, Gregoire overturned it, we all voted no on Safeco Field yet it was being built before we even voted, we all voted no on the RTS yet is went through anyhow - by the way, where is that at??? Where is all the money she (Gregoire) got from the Tobacco industry? All the money from the "education lottery"?

Save your money, get it out of financial institutions, and learn to live without w a lot of the things we take for granted. WA has become one of the top ten for taxation without representation and corruption. Sad but true.

I think you have missed the point here. The point is the continued taxation increases yet there is no evidence of where any of the other taxes have gone. Not to our schools, not to our streets, not the RTS, where did it go? Just because a vehicle is big do not immediately assume it is a fuel hog. I drive a 1 ton dually diesel and get better mileage than most "economy cars", plus it is safe and usable for more than commuting. I also came down from Alaska and can tell you first hand that your reference there is totally off-base. Try driving a Prius or similar there ANY time of year. Some geographics determine the vehicle you drive. With the rate WA is flooding, the amount of commuters, and the amount of those commuting not paying attention I do not blame anyone who drives a big rig. We pay for our fuel, we paid our taxes when we bought it...

 To you who have no civic / moral responsibility to the state of Washington, country of U.S.A and the people of the Earth. You stated:

 I am not sure why this came to me - I sincerely think you made an error - I am adamantly against this bill and for you to even bring someone's parents into this and so forth really shows your lack of intelligence and morality.  Not only am I adamantly against this and stupidity altogether, I served my time in the U.S. Armed Forces (6th generation) and continue to promote the Constitution of this country.  Aside from slinging ignorance, what do you do?

 

Read my other posts on page 9 and maybe you will see I did not write about some P.O.S that gets 35-37, that is some moron liberal living in his/her socialist/communist dreamland.  Sad thing is there are a lot of them, and a lot of them have taken over Washington State, the place I grew up in and used to love.

 Vote NO. If this is some CO2 tax, I think we'll get quite enough of that from the federal government, thank you very much. We don't need local and state government piling on more oppression just because some misguided politician thinks it's the "right thing to do".

If our science educators were doing their real jobs, I wouldn't need to point out that the hypothesis that claims global warming is man made, is non-falsifiable: There is no experiment that you could possibly run that will prove or disprove it. Therefore, it is unscientific (regardless of what some government funded scientists are saying about it). True scientists would know better. Government should not be legislating this stuff.

If environmentalists want to try to convince the public at large to voluntarily purchase smaller engines and alternative energy in the free market, that is fine. That's what the first amendment is for, and it's what liberty is all about. Not special interests using the force of government for getting whatever they want.

 

The oil companies don't have a gun to my head. I pay voluntarily. Please explain how how the oil companies set the prices. I thought it was supply and demand, and of course, the fact that OPEC has a huge influence on the world oil market.

VOTE NO!  This is another bill intended to deny you the freedom of choice in your daily lives and raise more money for the incompetent legislature to waste feeding the welfare state, buying votes for thenselves while taxpayer money if laundered into their campaign coffers.  Responsible management of taxpayer funds and executionof the duties they were supposedly elected to perform is beyond them.

 Re: 2008 Senate Bill 6900 (Establishing vehicle engine displacement and emissions fees) [ January 19, 2009]

VOTE NO!  This is another bill intended to deny you the freedom of choice in your daily lives and raise more money for the incompetent legislature to waste feeding the welfare state, buying votes for thenselves while taxpayer money if laundered into their campaign coffers.  Responsible management of taxpayer funds and executionof the duties they were supposedly elected to perform is beyond them.

 The Democrats brought this same bill up during the last legislative session and they will try to ram it through this one.

Since Gregoire and the crazed man-made global warming myth freaks in this state demand we pay through the nose for something that isn't even true is the epitome of arrogrance, stupidity and greed.

Who will benefit from the huge taxes extracted if this is enacted? The empty state revenue pot (due to the irresponsible, inept and clueless in our legislature and Gregoire) and the liberal's radical environmentalist kook friends-supporters that's who.

The intent of this bill is to force everyone to take public transportation whether or not it is available. That is, in fact, Gregoire's "transportation" goal. Make it unaffordable to drive your care anywhere and what choice do you have? You walk, ride your bike or hitchhike to your job (if you still have one) if there is no bus or train you can use which is the case outside the big cities.

 

 

You nailed it and in very few words. Corruption and stupidity are the way this state is run.

 let me preface this with saying I mostly agree with you.  let me then say that the problem here is that we all get on chat rooms and throw around anger, suggestions, solutions, etc, but until "We" (the fiscally responsible people) are as well organized as those who support legislation like this, we will never have a voice.

most people don't realize that the environmentalist and public employee union movement "wins" in these debates because they are 10,000 x more organized than the business/fiscally conservative groups.

we've got to stop arguing over whether or not global warming is real or whether or not "green built" homes are benficial or whether or not our carbon footprint is important.  if we keep trying to make those arguments and try to convince people it's not true, we will NEVER win.  There is nothing you can do to prove that global warming is not a man-made problem to those that believe in it.  It's not worth arguing over that point and a waste of time.

Instead we need to focus on a solution, a middle ground where environmental policy does not trump fiscal responsibility and where business interest does not completely ignore the environment.  we need to get organized and cultivate candidates to go to Olympia who will not just vote with their emotions, but are able to tell when an environmental policy bill is a responsible course of action. 

 Seems to me the economy is shot to hades, food prices out of reach and then some booger eating morons comes up with a way to guarantee we won't survive! Why not put an emmission tax on the imbiciles that though this one up. Guaranteed money maker!

DO NOT vote for SB 6900. Your constituents have already voted against a high tax on renewing their car tabs making this attempt at raising the vehicle tab tax a slap in the face of those who put you in office. Right now I am in a struggle to not lose my house; I have had to lay off employees and honestly cannot afford to pay anymore out in taxes or anything else. If this passes I will take it as an admission that you do not care about your constituents and focus my efforts on organizing behind a different candidate that has our best interest in mind at the next election cycle.

 woo hoo!  this is what I like to hear JKmyers - we all need to put our energy towards new candidates in this state that actually care about taking care of our money.  If our legislature is still trying to increase taxes AND spending during a recession, why are we still voting them into office??

 

 EVERYONE: This bill came up in the 2008 legislative session. So far, it hasn't been introduced in the current session.

 In case the lawmakers of this state have not been watching the news, we are going through somewhat of a recession, and the residents of this state can not afford any more taxes, to say nothing of the fact a tax on c02 emissions is something we have no control over.

As I wrote earlier, this bill was introduced in 2008 but did not pass. It hasn't been re-introduced in 2009 - at least not yet.

Under this bill, as for CO2 emissions, they were going to asses a fee on the size of your vehicle engine claiming the bigger the vehicle, the more CO2 emissions. For example, an 8.0 liter engine would be taxed $600. A 2.0-2.9 liter engine would be taxed $70.

The bill also wanted to impose a fee based on the grams of carbon dioxide emission PER MILE. The vehicle manufacture or other provider (whoever that is) would specify those grams. If your vehicle had over 362 grams the fee would be $600.

Under a separate bill, they wanted an excise tax imposed based on a vehicle's fuel economy. If you vehicle got only 10 MPG, you would pay $240.

You can BET someone in the legislature is going to either reintroduce these bills or write different ones that are just as bad or worse since Gregoire has committed herself to the man-made global warming myth and we ARE going to pay for it.

This is, in short, another liberal european style approach to transportation.  This will force all or most drivers, except former Sen Danshel, out of thier cars.  This will not solve the problem of carbon emissions, but exaserbate them.  Public Transit emmissions are much higher than yours and my cars.  This 2008  SB6900 is inequitable financially to car ownners, reprehensible to taxpayers' and politally stupid to solve tansporation issues.   

I am curious...I heard from a legitimate sounding source that there is a pretty easy way to oust public officials from office. From what I understand, public officials are required to post a bond, like many other occupations, for the purpose of providing a source of funds to make up for any damages or distresses caused by the bonded person. I wonder if a person could make the argument that the representatives that sponsored this bill, through their actions with this, caused yousome form of distress and loss, and sue for their bond money in a civil lawsuit. If successful, it apparently results in them losing their position because they aren't bonded, they can never be bonded again, and therefore, never able to hold a public office/position again. The source that shared this with me claims that he was able to take down a couple WA state supreme court justices this way. Does anyone have anymore information on this? I have run this past a few people that I know to be well-versed in the law and they hadn't heard of that. If this is true, it would result in the power most blatantly being handed back to the people of our great state. There's got to be a way...

 

 Like so many other folks in this forum, I own a 1 ton truck and MAYBE drive it 1,000 miles a year, I take a one week or two weeks of vaction a year and pull a big horse trailer which requires this type of truck. I'm retired and it's got to the point with all this tax and spending I may have to sell the trailer and just stay at home or move out of the darn state. What can I do to help stop this bill from passing, I tried e-mailing Murray and Cantwell but their web site seems to be down, hopefully because a lot of mad people are trying to get a hold of em.

 Lets all say it like is is.  This BILL sucks.

 BACKCOUNTRY: This is a Washington State bill, not a Federal Government bill. So Murray and Cantwell are not the ones to contact. Contact your state representatives and senator.

P.S. The whole point of this bill is to force you to stop driving your big truck.

P.P.S. I think a lot of us are considering moving out of Washington. But too many other states are just as bad so there aren't many good choices left.