Washington Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on January 14, 2008

Click here to view bill details.

When my groceries fall through my wet paper bags then can I use plastic?

Shoppers should buy & use their own cloth bags. I always insist on getting my 5-cent or 10-cent credit for bringing my own bag. If shoppers were charged $.25 for each bag, I'll bet there will be fewer of either plastic or paper bags.

It is not the plastic bags that are filling our landfills, it is the plastic containers that the plastic bags are filled with.

I think we should turn all our income over to the Gov to handle and make it easy for them.Then they wont have to pass more Bills to get out money.

What scares me is how this effect the liberal comprehensive sex education . The new condoms alternative is going a bit too far in my opinion .

If I want to use plastic, paper or cloth it should be my own choice not the choice of the government. I want reserve my right to choose not to give it up to the like of Christine or Hillary

Hurrah! I use reusable grocery bags every time I shop. This bill is about being responsible. We should be using neither paper NOR plastic bags. An estimated 500 billion to one trillion plastic bags are consumed world-wide every year. In the U.S. alone, an estimated 12,000,000 barrels of oil are required to produce the 100 billion consumed annually. Only 1 to 3% of plastic bags end up getting recycled. If it costs $4,000 to process and recycle 1 ton of plastic bags, which can then be sold on the commodities market for $32, it isn’t going to happen. The production of plastic bags requires petroleum and often natural gas, both non-renewable resources that increase our dependency on foreign suppliers. The annual cost to US retailers alone is estimated at $4 billion. Who do you think pays those costs? We all do, in the form of higher prices. In a landfill, plastic bags take up to 1,000 years to degrade. Plastic bags don’t biodegrade, they photo-degrade—breaking down into smaller and smaller toxic bits polluting our soil, river, lakes and oceans.

Thank you for introducing this. If more people would recycle their bags, we would not have this problem on such a large scale. Paper bags do get soggy and break, but they do not clutter our landfills, they break down. I would like to see more focus on recycling plastic bags.

Not BAN. What is wrong with you people? I enjoy my plastic bags. I bring them home and use them as trash bags and to pick up the dog pooh. If you crazy nimrods get your way, I'll be forced to go buy plastic bags for my trash and dog pooh. And if you choose not to reuse the bags, how about recycling them, did you ever think about that?

paper bags clutter land fills more than plastic bags do ... have you not noticed the volume of the bags?

That is what this should be about. I also reuse my plastic bags for things like diapers and for trash can liners. We need to be rational here. Ask grocery stores to post educational material about it all. But forcing people only angers them and often triggers a 'rebel' reaction and they will abuse the bags more.

Possible disposal scenarios: 1. Landfill: Paper bags do not biodegrade in a sanitary landfill any more than plastic bags do. NOTHING biodegrades in a modern landfill. But the paper bags take 50x more volume, and no, there is nothing "toxic" about LDPE (plastic bag material). 2. Recycle: Paper bags require something like 2x the energy and 10x the water to recycle than plastic bags. There is also more effluent. 3. Reuse: Plastic bags can be reused in many ways, as pointed out in other responses. Paper bags have almost no reuse potential. 4. Incineration: Neither should be burned at home. In an energy-generating trash incineration facility, a given weight of LDPE will produce over 100X as much energy as the same weight of kraft paper. 5. Littering: If you plan to toss your grocery bag out the car window, then and only then is paper the preferred environmental choice. This is a stupid bill based on eco-religion rather than scientific fact. Sort of like carbon credits.

Really? "Paper bags have almost no reuse potential"? Seriously? Where are you living and how old are you? If you were alive prior to the early 1990's before plastic bags were a problem. Paper bags were reused many times, and continue to do so. Do they not have curbside recycling where you live? Do you not see paper bags being used every week to recycle cans and bottles?

I see and hear all sorts of figures thrown around.Does anyone know the volume of 1 million plastic plastic grocery bags and the amount of oil required to produce this many ?

If we don't use plastic bags, how do we throw away garbage at home? What should we use to line our garbage cans? Why can't we use those biodegradable plastic bags? I just check online. 500 biodegradable plastic grocery bags cost only $78.65. So that's like $0.16 each. If the supermarkets charges us for plastic bags, those bags better be biodegradable. Otherwise, why would I pay for something that's bad for our environment?

The problem is once you reuse the plastoc bag and toss the dog pooh...where do you think it goes? Does it magically disappear once you've tossed it? NO! Take your dog pooh in a plastic bag multiple that by how many times you dog has to pooh. Now multiply that by everyone in the nation with a dog that poohs and you begin to see the extent of the problem.

 read recently that a bill has been proposed in Washington state which requires that plastic bags used in grocery stores be made out of PLA (a corn based plastic.)  This proposed bill is based on misconceptions which have been spread by the PLA lobby, which sells plastics made out of corn.  This lobby is funded by the Dow Chemical Company, Cargill Inc., and ADM.  These corporate giants make non-food items out of corn.  Making non-food items out of grain is what caused last year's spike in grain prices.  The part of oil, naphtha, that is made into plastic is not something that could be used for making anything else-it is not potential gasoline or diesel, for example.  It was regarded as a waste product and burned off before we started making it into plastic.

There are a lot of problems with PLA - If we made all of the plastic disposable items used in the world every year out of PLA, it would take one hundred and fifty million tons of corn to make it. That would lead to mass starvation in the third world, as that represents at least 10% of the world's grain supply. It also takes a huge amount of oil to grow, fertilize, ship, and process this corn, and as a practical matter, it is also not recyclable-In fact, the recyclers are trying to get PLA banned because it gets mistaken for PET, and ruins their PET batches. Restaurant owners and merchants find it annoying that PLA becomes gummy in water, gives water stored in it an odd taste, softens at soup temperatures, and has a short shelf life.  PLA is weaker than conventional and biodegradable conventional plastic, and more expensive per pound, as well. Also,  PLA can't be composted at home-it takes the elevated temperatures of a commercial composter to compost PLA.  

If PLA is placed into land fills, it gets buried so deeply that it is in a zone free of oxygen.  Then anaerobic microorganisms digest it, releasing methane gas.  PLA is consumed so quickly that the land fill is not capped before it creates methane, so all of that methane is released into the atmosphere, where it causes global warming.  Some biodegradable plastics that are not corn based will also release methane if they are digested by anaerobic bacteria, but they do so so slowly that the land fill is capped before methane is released.  When the land fills are capped, the methane is either burned off or it is used as a heat source for industrial uses, such as generating electricity.

In short, requiring grocery bags to be made out of PLA would be a counterproductive law which would enact a tax on the public for the benefit of socially irresponsible corporate giants. The alternative? Recyclable biodegradable plastics-Plastics made out of an otherwise useless industrial byproduct, naphtha, which have a harmless additive in them that makes them biodegrade. See http://biogreenproducts.biz for full information.

-Tim Dunn, Arlington WA

 Years ago, they started making these bags so they will decompose. So what is the big deal?  More micromanagement of every aspect of life?  Next will be a bill eliminating toilet paper, yeah sounds stupid, but watch out. 

If you don't want them in land fills collect them as recycle and either recycle them or turn them into fuel.

This is a good initiative and I know there are a lot of people complaining about this but after some time they will understand this is a good Bill. Imagine how many plastic grocery bags are used in US every day or the amount of oil needed to produce them. I started using paper bags a lot of years ago, even when I go and check for tradeshow giveaways I have some paper bags where I put the products, plastic is bad for the environment and I`m glad our government tries to do something about this.