Washington Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on January 10, 2007

Click here to view bill details.

This bill is another attempt at forcing fit parents to adhere to a judges interpretation of how their children should be raised. Why do we need this intrusion in our lives? Relationships cannot be legislated. This goes against fundamental Constitutional Rights. Our Constitutionally protected rights to the care, custody and control of our children are being compromised and hashed around in court when we have done nothing wrong. The same legislators try this year after year. For "Special Interest" groups. How come they don't understand that it's a parents job to decide whom their children will associate with? Would these same legislators try to make a bill that would allow parents to sue grandparents whom don't want to see their grandchildren? Wouldn't that be Equal Protection? I bet they wouldn't try that kind of bill, now would they? A minor child's best interest is served by loving, protective parents. Parents in general are NOT opposed to their children seeing their grandparents who repect the parents. This would include the majority of grandparents. Parents are opposed to government involvement when there is a difference of opinion between the parents and nonparent relatives - grandparents - over the parent's children. The children in these cases are happy and healthy, their parents loving and protective. Courts should not be substituting their opinion for that of the fit parents decision. Since this is not a life or death issue, it should stay out of the legal system. Grandparents who are thinking of taking parents to court may want to think about alternate solutions to solving their family conflicts, like say, being decent human beings! Grandparents who sue for visitation obviously are opposed to allowing their adult children the same right they enjoyed raising their own children without government interference. This is NOT about the children, it's about manipulative, vindictive, controlling, narcissist grandparents, whom are allowed legal harassment through the courts. This is in turn Family Abuse that is legislated. Grandparents who sue demonstrate precisely why they are not welcomed to be a part of the grandchildren's lives. A grandparent who takes advantage of a single parent's situation and sues because they can does NOT serve anyone's interest but their own. This is a Baby-Boomer control issue, not a rights issue. Taking healthy families to court, at tremendous expense to the family, further degrading them with psychological evaluations, violating their privacy with attorneys and judges is abuse of the family. Normal, rational grandparents don't use these laws or need them. Normal grandparents value parents and the relationship between themselves and the child's parents and don't find it necessary to further damage the relationship with hateful court actions where the child is caught in the middle. If a family relationship has deteriorated to the point that you would need court intervention to visit your grandchild, then it's time to walk away. These cases are like a never ending divorce, it isn't healthy for the child at all. Litigation brings tremendous stress to the child, and whole family. Is it in the best interest of the child/children to bankrupt parents by suing them and depriving their children of activities and, possible necessities of life? Obviously, something has changed if a parent decides that the grandparents are no longer welcome in their home, or be allowed to visit with the grandchildren. These are Obviously not fit grandparents, and it's up to the parents to make that determination. There is normally a legitimate reason a parent would stop a grandparent from seeing the child. The type of Harm that comes from litigation definately supersedes any kind of "So Called" Harm that the grandparents claim that the children receive in not seeing them. May I ask what happens when a grandparent dies, or doesn't want to see their grandchildren? Nothing, the children are still loved by their parents, and they move on. There is NO HARM PERIOD! FIT parents should not have to defend their right to parent, and protect their children from third parties. Bad parents age and become bad grandparents. Parents shouldn't have to defend their right to limit contact with people they know to be harmful. Grandparent visitation ONLY affects FIT parents. When a parent is unfit then grandparent visitation will NOT help the child, and there are other laws in place. These grandparents should be ashamed for using the court system to assault family privacy. Grandparent visitation is a priviledge not a right. Please write, call, and email these legislators, and tell them this is Unconstitutional, and Bad Law! This goes against the caselaw of the WA State Supreme Court, Appelate Court, and the US Supreme Court Decision in Troxel, as well as against the US Constitution, and WA State Constitution.

my son is 4 weeks old. his grandmother is verbally, mentally, and physically abusive to her own children and even strangers. But... because of the new grandparent act, she may get unsupervised weekend visits with him and 2 other grandchildren. this is unfair to me, the mother, and to the children. grandparents have priviliges, not rights. they've had their chance when they raised their own children.

The other side of your arguement would be less than perfect parents. They do exist. In our case a fued between our son and daughter kept us from being allowed to see grandchild. This doesn't make us unfit lunatics. Both parents of the child refuse to work. This doesn't make us terrible grandparents. Both parents party non-stop and have house guests 24/7. Why or how does this make us bad grandparents. We often have to purchase formula and diapers for grandson. Are we bad yet? Do you believe if no contact is granted that later in life the grandchild won't want to see or meet their grandparents? More traumatic later in life for the child to meet family members than having it would be to have constant contact and support throughout their young lives. Get my point?

There is no such thing as grandparent visitation rights in Washington State. Both the US Supremce Court and WA State Supreme Court, along with the WA Court Of Appeals concluded that grandparent visitation is an Unconstitutional Infringement on parental rights, both Facially, and As Applied. Those legislators who try to introduce new bills are working against the parents of this state, and should be thrown out of office, people like Rep Ruth Kagi, who works for special interests like the organization called GROW, and the AARP. There is no law in WA State, just like Florida, the only two states without this Unconstitutional Law. Make sure to keep it that way.....

Please don't be a narcissist. STAY OUT OF YOUR CHILDRENS LIVES, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO TELL THEM WHAT TO DO> YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE TO RAISE THEM. NOW IT"S THIER TURN. TRY TO WORK ON YOUR RELATIONSHIP, INSTEAD OF THINKING ABOUT SUING. YOU ARE SICK AND MANIPULATIVE. STAY OUT OF THEIR LIVES. ARE YOU SICK?

You make me sick. Why do you think you have rights to someone elses children? Stay out of their life. If you have a lawsuit on your mind, you should be banished from their lives forever. You don't even know how hard a lawsuit would be on them. GET LOST. You are only thinking about yourselves. SCREW YOU

I am a single mother of two great kids and I am fighting this battle now. My so called mother potitioned the court for grandparents rights. She won that case and now she has potitioned the court for custody. The Judge due to his byass against single mothers gave temp custody to her. He did not listen to the facts, such as she has a record of child abuse, and drug addiction. I have been raising my kids alone for along time. I don't abuse or neglect them. I don't do drugs and I work. I don't use the system to support my kids but I have been made out to be a bad mother because I am single and don't own a home. This Judge has taken my daughter and given the grandmother all rights. I have seen my daughter two times in three months and there is nothing I can do about it. My daugter wants to live there because the grandparents don't say no and buy her everything. The next court date keeps getting moved and I'm running out of money for the attorney bills. The court system is only for the people with money and because I work I can't get legal aid. I dont know where to turn for help financially and emotionally. I live in Ohio where gradually parents are loosing all there rights and noone will help.

I am so glad that other people are able to express what I'm feeling. My mother abused me and my sibling and now a judge gave my daughter to her. i don't believe in hitting my kids because of what she did to me and I have raised good kids. But now my daughter is being brain washed into believing lies about me and other members of her family. I am happy to see that others feel the same way about grandparents already had there chance and now its ours!

I am the other grandparent. The mother's mother has put my son and his family through abuse charges that were proved to be false. She did not return the children when she had visitation always filing charges. We went to comtempt of court to get the children back. He was given sole custody in the custody battle. Now we go to court as she has petitioned to see the grandchildren. My son now fights for his right to protect his children who are now afraid they will not be coming home to him. I feel both sides should be evaluated. I feel that the courts should be a little more receptive to the fathers plea of sanctuary for his children. It is a sad day when we need to fight for our rights as parents to protect our children even from grandparents!

My son was killed. My 6 year old grandson and his mother lived with us for the first year and a half,following his death. We supported them and loved them. She rconciled with her parents and moved to Washington, while we were gone and without so much as a thank you. (She left because of the money she owed us). I have pleaded with her to let us talk to our grandson, by email. She refuses, she will not give the cards we send, and I am worried about him and what affect this has had on him, since he was never able to say good bye. Her parents are both alcholics and smoke pot. All I want is to be able to communicate with him as he grows up and tell him about his daddy. Is that so wrong? Why can't the courts allow reasonable contact between grandchild and grandparents when the death of a parent occurs and the living parent just wants the child to forget us? There needs to be a law to protect the welfare of the child and grandchildren deserve to know their grandparents love them, even if it only comes through the phone and mail system.

Why? Because there is no such thing as grandparent visitation rights. A right is something you're entitled to. Therefore, there can't be grandparents visitation rights. You have no rights, can't you get that through your head? It's up to the parents in WA State. Not the courts. The US Supreme Court, WA Supreme Court, and Court of Appeals made that clear. Anybody who would go against parents deserves to be shunned, and cut out of the childrens lives.

They might not be inclined to keep you from your grandchildren. It's ultimately their decision to make. Sometimes freedom has a cost... parental freedom may cost the grandparents visitations, but that's life... odds are if the grandparents are being excluded it is their own fault.

I believe that grandchildren are often used as the pawns in a concerted effort to wield power and control over grandparents by emotionally immature parents. In most cases, children are being denied the right to visit a grandparent not out of love or concern for the child, but out of vindictiveness by a parent. Grandparents are an important and integral part of the social and emotional fabric of a child's life and if need be, should be protected by law.

what about Grandparent vs Grandparent has anyone heard or know of a case? If you know please let us know......alabama

You must have no ideal, what real love is. You must have never had a good loving relationship with a grandparent. Sorry for you. Grandparents wipe away tears and listen when parents don't have the time or care.They see to it that grandchildren get to play and learn in many ways, that the parent don't have time for. You don't know what you are saying.

does that give you more information, we have custody of grandchild she has been here since birth, she is now 5 yr.old we have sole custody... drug bust in other gp house she wants visitation does not deserve...........

Most grandparents are as you say. But then there are some that are not. There are some that use the system to file false charges against the parent ending up in the children being put in foster care even after the parent went out of the way for the grandmother to see the children. The Parent had to file contempt of court charges to get them returned just to have the grandmother file more abuse charges. Does a caring grandparent subject the child to what needs to be accomplished to file an abuse charge? By the way the parent was found not guilty of the charges.... Now the grandparent still pushes in court battles. Most all parents want the child to have a relationship with grandparents. But if the parent who is a fit parent and was proven so feels that their children are in danger THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE VISITATION!!

What about the good grandparent? The nana that the grandchildren love so much and every time thay leave her home, beg to stay, cry. The one's who hate the stepmother to be. The ones who refer to thier home "as her home" and not daddy's and thiers. The small children who have always had nana and now are being alienated from her, because dad says" I have started a new life? Well just because you start a new life, dosen't mean the old one stops. I have been there since those babies popped into the birthing room and I won't ever stop being thier fun nana. And remember, you too, will become grandparents some day. SAD SAD SAD NANA

YES, it should be protected by law. There is a highesr percent of Quality grandparents verses negative ones. You cannot deny all grandparents their rights to know their Grandkids just because of the few idiot grandparents.

Obviously you are not a Grandparent. If so, you have no Grandmaternal Instincts. Grandparents or someone who fills those shoes have always been and will always be part of a BALANCED Childhood for all childrens life IF they are Qualified loving people, whom the child is very bonded to. Every CHILD has the right to have the people They love the most in their lives. My neice is unmarried and has 5 kids. She strings them about and her parents have no rights to prevent some from being sent out of the Country. The father of the last one is not even a citizen and his Parents want them in another Country. Because she has control even though SHE is in jail! This is Washington State for you! The Grandparents that she is used to, and bonded to has no rights? HELLO?

I agree with you. Some grandparents are NOT qualified to be around children. Just like some parents. There are always the jerks out there that spoil things for everyone. It depends on allot of cercumstances.

Not that simple when the grandparents are not together by marriage anymore.. I am the grandmother(marternal) and because the other side of the family has money and cannot stand me,and has temporary custody. I have been denied my rights. I have fought at Christmas, Easter and my granddaughters birthday.Court proceeded involving money through an attorney to be able to see her. Sick!

There should be a law that allows visitation for grandparents within reason. The person who wrote the response about immaturity and the parents showing they are the controller is correct. If you are hurting the children and the other grandparent because you need to show that you and/or the new partner are now the rulers, it is not OK. Too many innocent people get hurt. My grandkids are going to grow up thinking everyone they love leaves, just because of a parents selfishness. The mother (my daughter) doesn't come around and the father and his new girlfriend say I can't. They have told me I can't. The last time I saw my grandbabies, they asked "why can't we see you more? Why can't we stay the night Nana? Why don't you call us? Why can't we go to the park with you anymore? What I am I suppose to tell them? How heartbreaking for us all. Who really gets hurt here?

Loving a grandchild is like none other It's not quite the same as being a mother. You love your children, each one unique but the love of a grandchild, will sweep you off your feet. They look up at you, with their cute little grins, touching your heart from deep within. They're sweet little angels sent from above and the warm your heart with unconditionnanl love. I miss you both so much, someday I will be able to see you again. I love you both. A grandmother

My daughter and grandaughter moved in with me when my grangaughter was a small baby. I have always been in my grandaughter's life. I have paid for 95% of all expenses for this child. Her mother can not hold a job. Father in jail for drugs. I supported her mother as a stay at home mom for the best care for the child. We made an agreement that I would play the second parent role give up my relationship and change my job to do this. My daughter agreed for the sake of the child not to ever take her out of my life. At 4 years old her mother went on a 9 month drug speee left the child with me unless I was at work. I started a child protection case, but could not get enough evidence before she broke up with that man. Over the years she has used my grandaughter as A tool to get what she wanted. I held out as long as I could, 7 years. BAD mother found A new man turned on me and the rest of the family moved my grandaughter out. She cut her off . The child has gone from A grandmother that devoted my life to her. She lived in A 4 bedroom house on the beach, ballet, panio, bowling, scoocer, nice clothes and lots and lots of love. Now she has changed school because her non-working mother can't get out of bed to drive her three blocks to the bus. no ballet, no scoocer, no bowling, no swiming, she lives behind a curtian pulled across a living room. She has gained 15-20 pounds and has no new school clothes. My daughter and her man have enough money daily for cigarettes wiskey and drugs. Before her mother took her away my grandaughter begged me crying not to let her take her. I SAY WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDRENS RIGHTS ? THE LAWS PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THE MOTHER, LIKE SHE IS MATURE ENOUGH TO PUT THE CHILD BEFORE HERSELF! I promised my grandaughter I will never give up.I have spent 7 thousand and been trying for 5 months and I'am not much closer than when I started. My poor poor grandaughter, shame on the U.S. for laws like this.

Amen!

My husband died in a an accident and the courts forced my daughter to have visits with both my mother in law and father in law (both remarried). I fought this as hard as I could. These people are mentally unstable and I worry greatly about the affects this will have on my daughter. Her grandfather has already been skipping visits with her. It is not fair that a court would allow him to pop in and out of her life like that. She doesn't even want to visit with him. Why is the court allowing my daughter to be repeatedly hurt? Where are the parent's rights? If a parent is declared fit, it should be under their discretion to decide what is best for the child, regardless if they are widowed or not. I know not all grandparents are bad and not all parents are good. There needs to be a ruling if the parent is fit or not. If they are, a parent should be well within their rights to refuse visitation with whomever they choose.

I am an adoptee, now 40 years old. My adoptive mother, who is an abusive, unstable woman has visitation rights with my children who of no blood relation to her. since this woman is my legal mother, she has rights to my children. her visitation rights far exceed the norm without grounds. She gets to see my children every other weekend, four hours on all major holidays and I cannot remove my children from the county in which they live without a courts permission. should I fail to be able to support my children and wish to move to another country or state, I have to ask for permission. Furthermore, I want no contact with my adoptive family, at all. My rights seem to not matter. I can leave the county and state if I choose, but my children have to stay in the county until they are 18 and if I did ask for the right to move them out of state, my adoptive mother has the legal right to know where we are. This is unfair to me. I am legally harrassed and controlled by my adoptive mother and she uses my children whom are of no blood relation to her, to do it! Something needs to be done! Signed, Frustrated adult in NY trying to protect her children and self from one overbearing, intrusive adoptive mother.

To rip someone out of a child's life that he/she has bonded with is child abuse, so, why is it allowed? Grandparent's should not have to go to court to have a relationship with their grandchildren and even if they do kids are seen today as the parent's property so it's very costly, and useless. If the parent's want to use their child/children to torture the grandparent's our courts say it's perfectly legal for them to do so...and we wonder why our prison's are bulging at the seams?! My grandson today is really messed up and a very sad child but they have had two daughter's since they moved and I was not allowed to even know them. God help us all because the court system has found a way to legally condone child abuse..and just look at the results we're getting. It's heartbreaking....

?A Grandmother’s Heavy Heart Dedicated to my Grandchildren Austin and Layla Oh how sad for a Grandmother who tries for now left is a heart that truly cries Torn from the arms of love at such a tender age for tiny little hearts of love is the saddest wage How sad my dear precious little one for nothing I can do for you aren’t my daughter or son A head that droops with tears a heart that now fears I have no time to give you my love for sure so much pain and sorrow we now must endure My body is heavy my mind is dull my heart is ever so sad I have no energy to even be mad I have done nothing wrong Grandchildren of my heart except love you so dearly when we are oh so far apart Now that I could travel and see you more this is taken from me cause it is you I both do so adore I cry and weep with such heaviness I have never known for all I want to do is give you love that should be shown I don’t understand this from your Parents at all and I don’t understand Parents wanting us to take such a fall I don’t understand a Parent who would want to take away such love when I have so much goodness in me from God above I’m am only guilty of one thing I want you both to know my love for you both does oh so willingly flow For this great wonderful love I have in me we are punished for this is what I see My dear little Grandbabies you are so very close to me indeed for this my heart is left torn to bleed Now love so sweet shall have to suffer when it should not now emptiness is all I have got If something should happen to me know this wasn’t my choice for we had no say they wouldn’t listen to our voice I would have done anything to see you both oh so much for I felt I had much to give and I too wanted your life to touch So please forgive me I beg of you from the deepest part of my soul I couldn’t be there as often as a Grandmother for they wouldn’t let me have my role So please forgive me for sadly there was nothing I could do to be there as often as I wanted for the both of you I love you and I shall protect this love and keep you safe in my heart where you have been from the very start I pray God shall let me live long enough to tell you both how I feel that all this was so unnecessary we all got a raw deal How can sweet love so pure and so kind be so wrong when all I want as your Grandmother is to belong I have some wonderful qualities about me I wanted to share for the both of you I oh so deeply for care My love is beyond this earth, moon and stars that twinkle in the sky this is why I hurt deeply my Grandbabies this honestly is not a lie I wish your parents hadn’t take so much from you and I for if I had too I would for you both die My deepest fear is you will soon forget this deep love I have that is freely yours for my love for you two oh so freely soars Even though I was willing to travel to see you both my time has been cut back now time and your precious sweet love is what I will lack Oh such cruel punishment for what the love that I sent Oh such heart ache for sweet precious time I now must forsake All for the love of my heart that is oh so deep and wide punishment now all for love I could not hide Why dear God such anger and turmoil must live on why can’t love sweet love just be left alone Why can’t two precious children have me too God help me for I truly don’t know what to do The Parents don’t care if I suffer and my heart is torn they don’t care that I cry or mourn For if they did they would not leave me as a Grandmother so far behind all because I had my Grandbabies foremost in my mind The only thing I now can do is pray that even thru distant time you feel my love each and every day Oh Grandbabies of mine so precious and dear know each night I softly whisper I love you with many a tear © It was fine that I was there for my grandson for the first 5 years of his life constantly and my granddaughter for 2 1/2 years. I was wonderful when doing and giving and then it all fell apart when the Mother (Giannina) moved 7 hours away to Cullowhee NC and she got to the point that 48 hours a month was to much time for me to spend with my grandchildren, even though I paid for everything when we went there and every other month taking her sister's two children( Kayli and Keith) for the weekend at the hotel with us paying for it all. Even her sisters two children came with my Grandson and spent a week at my home we paid for everything here for them all...this was fine I was a good loving grandmother but when I didn't want to go without seeing my Grandchildren 48 hours a month I became very bad, but really the troubles started all because of a very strong bond I share with them even her Mother, the other Grandmother(Donna)told me this. So now the children must be made to feel someone they love could just leave go away (one day here-gone the next day) HOW SAD HOW DAMAGING all for 48 hours a month. No courts will help so the children are the parents pawn in a game of chess and the parents play check mate and won but who really lost. The children the precious precious children they will grow up one day and have a really big problem over this. (Ask a Child Psychologist--I did and found one that is a Father with two children the age of my Grandchildren and he told me this is a form of emotional and mental abuse the parents have done to their children and they will grow up one day with problems from this. Just know Austin and Layla--NaNa loves you more than the earth moon and stars and even beyond this lifetime. I am a very good and loving person but your parents can't control me and they played their last move by trying to use the both of you to control me and it didn't work. Last time I saw and even talked to the both of you was Feb. 11th 2007. Your Father(Marvin-"Buddy") my son last talked to me in February 2007 sticking me yet again with a large debt of over $7,000.00 this time. His way of getting out of paying me...so money and control is an issue and we have to pay the price. God willing we shall meet again I promise you this much the world is not large enough that I can't find you and let you know of my love and loss time. God help the small children in situations of being used by personal agenda parents. So sad who truly loses (THE INNOCENT LOVING CHILDREN) When a parent wins using their children to control grandparents then it is the child that suffers the loss of someone they love dearly. This is sad and I want be part of using a child for anyone. So for now I must say bye but God willing I will see you again. When you are grown and no one has control over your life but yourself and we can FREELY LOVE again. Love NaNa Becky Edwards Spruill Strickland Hampstead NC PS... before a parent responds to this know this I begged my Son for intervention begged him 3 times for us to go to counseling for the children's sake he told me NO they meaning Him as the Father and the Mother owe me nothing. Even the Mother herself told me this too...how Sad they owe their children better than this to take away Good Loving Grandparents that has been a huge part of their lives from the day they came into this world. Yes you do owe me without me there would not be a Father to your children. So yes I am due some respect. I AM A VERY GOOD LOVING PERSON WHO DOES NOT DESERVE THIS BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY EVERYONE READING THIS MY GRANDCHILDREN DO NOT DESERVE THIS. WE ALL DESERVE BETTER! I think this says it all about me...my grown nephew of 32 years old when he has another child wants me and my husband to be the God Parents and the child if a girl will be named after me...SO HOW BAD CAN I BE? My Step-Grandchildren (5 of them) are close me too especially my step granddaughter of 15 years old.. stays with us a great deal we have a wonderful loving relationship as well as the parents to all 5 of these children...SO HOW BAD CAN I BE? Thank you for reading............. Parents....you better think......KARMA

Are there any rights for Grandparents when the 19 year old mother of our year old Grand Daughter is acting irresponsible and irrational in her decisions concerning the baby? She has gone as far as leaving the baby with a lady who let a man into her home that inappropriately touched her two girls. We have tried to talk to the 19 yr old but she knows it all.. any advice would help. Thank you.