Washington Votes Forum

The previous post said "this law ... violates the constitution." You have to realize that our law-making body is in a republic of the USA, and as such is not bound by it's constitution. DC has the right to make whatever laws they see fit for governing thier republic. It just so happens that they made certain benefits so apealing that we , the States, are willing to adopt them with all the pro's and con's. We're now to the point where the job of the government has been almost completely sub-contracted out to DC. To keep things on point, it is not constitutional, but that has no bearing on the topic. We just have to let them know that we find this disagreeable, and that Poker in itself is not gamling. It's a game. When a group of guys go out fishing together, they'll sometimes put money on whoever will catch the biggest fish. Does that mean they should outlaw fishing? FWIW: I do not gamble by my own principles, but I still think it's wrong for it to be outlawed.

Additionally-- Could you comment about table limits. I cant' believe that casinos have 25/25 cent tables, $2 tournaments, $5 tournaments, $10 tournaments, and how about free-roll tournaments (not likely). With PokerTracker you can record every card, every bet, every hand, and every game played and replay the best and worst hands played to improve your hands. Try bringing a notepad to a real table. My average waiting time for a 10-person tournament at my desired betting limit is seconds to minutes. I can get on a ring game in seconds. If my daughter needs help on her homework, I can walk away from the table and come back and no one cares. For nubiles, there are play tables, where you can refine your skills without risking money. Then you can start at the free-roll tournaments and then to $2 tournaments. There are minimal "tells" on-line. I hate to think what clues a nubile would be broadcasting at his first brick-and-mortar game. I will continue to gamble on-line and will NEVER vote for any of the politicians that voted for this serious invasion of our privacy.

They say that online gambling is illegal and that banks will be able to stop any transfers that i will do to casino sites. But what if i used a third party payment provider like neteller? Would they still be able to stop me from using my money??????????? We pay our taxes. We give our dues. Where we want to spend our money is our own private concern. What right does the government have to tell me where to spend MY money??????????????????????????????????????

I like to play poker, and I have a family. If I want to play a poker tournament post-SB6613, I have to go straight from work to the casino, and spend the evening there. I basically miss the family dinner, after dinner activites, bedtime stories, and a chat with my wife. It is incredibly easy, convienent, and quicker to do online poker tournaments, so I can do all those family things *and* then later at night, play in a poker tournament online. Online poker is just way better than brick and mortar gambling for family issues - in addition to all the other reasons noted above. Also, online I don't have to worry about carjackers, muggers, drunk drivers, etc. It is a much safer experience than brick and mortar casinos. These are yet more reasons why SB 6613 is a bad idea.

Once the money leaves your checking account for Neteller or FirePay you, Neteller and your iGambling site are the only ones who know what happened. From your banks' perspective, Neteller is another established financial party. With a London market capitalization of US$1.2B and 3,400 merchant relationships and 2.5 million customers and US$7.3B (2005) in transaction flow it is significant company. It is headquartered on the Isle of Man, just off the coast of the UK

Is there a grassroots movement to overturn this dumb law?

The more we all contact our legislators, the media, and tell others about SB 6613, the better off we will be. I, for one, have set up meetings with both of my representatives, and am in the process of setting up meetings with my senator. One of my representatives has already admitted to me over email that he no longer thinks he should have voted for it. I hope to be able to keep pushing this issue for as long as it takes to overturn SB 6613. I hope everyone puts in the effort needed to make ourselves heard on this issue. IMHO, SB 6613 is such a bad law that just focusing a spotlight on it will help our side a lot. So go for it - talk to lawmakers and the media about this!

She never replied to my rebuttal. Her initial response was clearly scripted and probably sent to anyone who e-mailed her. What a disgrace.

Day has a compulsion for ripping up the Bill of Rights. He has a staff of jack-booted investigators and thugs working for him: He has sent commission agents into the homes of several state gamblers to threaten them. (Sam Skolnik, "Time for gamblers to fold," Seattle Post-Intelligencer, May 27, 2006) He is trying to hire additional "investigators," likely having the computer skills necessary to aid prosecution. Perhaps someone can check on his hiring ads. His goons have tried to silence free speech by closing at least one web-site, IntergrityCasinoGuide, a Bellingham enterprise which attempted to provide consumer information on the integrity of iGambling sites. Reference: Danny Westneat, "This column may be illegal," The Seatttle Times, June 15, 2006. University of Washington law professor Stewart Jay wonders "how ordinary citizens can be prosecuted for transmitting or receiving gambling information, as the law words it, while newspapres and television stations are exempt. Reference: Bylthe Lawrence and Tracy Johnson, "New state onlone gambling law raises doubts," Seattle Post-Intelligencer,26 June 2006. His goons have threatened The Seattle Times because they publish a nationally syndicated column by famed gambler Daniel Negreanu, "Card Shark." Same Seattle Times reference above. His office is looking at forcing Barnes and Nobles to pull "Winning at Internet Poker for Dummies," and gambling magazines like "All In," and from its shelves. He has threatened the media (radio, television and newspapers) right here in Washington Votes with a gross misdemeanor for providing "gambling information." Whatever that means. Advertising would also be a gross misdemeanor. He has indicated that he would apply the new law inconsistently. Some people would get 0-90 days others would get five years. All of our rights are being taken away for the benefit of the tribes, the state lottery, the horse race tracks and the card clubs by a bunch of corrupt politicians.

I Have been in Indian casinos and bingo halls and played progressive slots. I am not sure but these must be online becouse they are all linked together across the USA. And then I read that all online gambeling is ileagel in America for all. Please give us some insight on this so as not to make so many more crimanels out of good people such as you and I. Correct me if I am wrong please. Washington resident 38 proud years so lets do what we all can to keep it that way.

Why I must ask you fellow statesmen is a certan race of people left untouched to capatlize on ileagel activeitys. Do you really think this can work from now until this time foword. At what point in time can we all come to a agreement on this most highly racial issue. I truely do beleive if left untouched for any amount of time longer the racial unfairness will fester. I personaly liket Washington better before gambeling was aloud; meaning mainly that when the lottery was aloud years ago was when it all started. The past can not be changed however the future can be. What is fair for one must be fair for all in my and your county. This is essential to are future. Comenting on the new feleny gambeling law . I Dont know what choice there can be when it comes to controlling miner children. Steve July 2006

If you are correct, the Tribal progressive slot machines would violate the new Washingon State law. Perhaps, some lawyer can respond?

I won $100 last night on PartyPoker.com. My address is on the original string email--you guys afraid to implement your own laws? Jimmy D.

The only arguments I hear apply equally well to all the other legal forms of gambling in Washington State. If gambling is good for our state if properly regulated for lotteries, horse racing, cardrooms and casinos, why not apply that to internet gambling as well? Especially since many of the same activites (i.e. a poker tournament) do not differ at all from casinos to online websites. I just don't understand what the difference is. To me it is like saying Barnes and Nobles and Borders are fine, but Amazon.com is evil. It makes no sense!!!!!!

The legislature does not really care about legal sufficeny, i.e., the new law making internet gambling a felony. All they care about is how many "chips" they have lined in their pockets & how to wheel and deal these "chips" in order to accomplish their peronal agendas. It's so agonizingly transparent. It's particularly distressing that the gambling commission director sold out the agency's arm's-length relationship between politicans and the gambling commission. The director sold the agency out by catering to Sen. Margaita Prencice's wishes - she wants to prohibit new gambling so she can protect existing state gambling venues. This would of course, protect her gambling constituants who would see the value of their existing license soar. Why else would she propose a law prohbiting any new gambling licenes and granfather existing ones? Why else would she sponsor law that subjects people to felony charges for internet gambling? Come on, open your eyes we can all see the transparency of this political sham.

Just finished celebrating our nation's freedoms yesterday. Then I went home and *couldn't* log on and play a little poker - because WA lawmakers only believe in 'freedom' in certain specific ways.

Yes, everyone should be contacting their rep's to get work done on this issue. Unfortunately I live in the 11th so Sen. Prentice and Rep. Hasegawa have been much less than receptive.

I do not, and have not ever gambled online: And yet I have had my subscription to Casino Player magazine canceled, simply because they have online poker ads in them, and could be subject to prosecution. Myself and about 800 people have been affected by this, which is clearly an assault on our First Amendment rights. More stand to be affected if online sites which even have links to online gambling sites have to start cancelling Washington subscriptions, too. The Seattle Times and Seattle Weekly have been contacted, and letters are being sent to the Washington ACLU. Contact the W-ACLU as they direct at their website, the more people who notify them that their First Amendment rights are being violated, the bigger the chance of them helping us fight this legislation in court. There has been plenty of debate in both the Seattle Times and Seattle PI as to whether this legislation is too far-reaching to be held up in court.

That defies logic!

No, it's really quite simple. Poker played at Indian casinos = money poured into tribal coffers. That's ok because they're a special class of people and every white man who lives today is somehow responsible for their historical plight--therefore they are deserving of special legal rights. Poker played online = money going anyhwere but tribal coffers, and that's bad.

In proving their ineptitude at writing law our lawmakers have created a burden we will have to pay for. This law is sure to be challenged. When that challenge comes our state's legal resources and court time will be taken at a cost. It has also become clear that we will be paying for additional investigators to attempt to enforce this law. We will be paying prosecutors to try the cases taking resources away from more worthy uses. All for a law so poorly written it can't stand. All for a law based on political graft. Meanwhile our infrastructure crumbles under our feet due to lack of funds. Meanwhile our essential services like fire protection and police strain due to lack of resources. It's a sad state we live in.

I thought maybe this new gambeling law was to prevent miners access to gambeling until I walked in to safeway yesterday realaised that any miner allready has access to gambeling vea State Sratch Ticket Machines you put money in. UMM. NAA.

I also had my subscription to Casino Player magazine canceled, but yet I'm still receiving my subscription to High Times. Our state has leaders have truly lost it. I was brought up that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. So all I can do is sit back and laugh.

After emailing most of the state legislators regarding Senate Bill 6613 (Banning internet gambling) it appears that the bill was represented to them as an inconsequential technical change that clarified existing law. That’s why the bill was passed without any public input or debate. Most seemed surprised by the public reaction and at many would vote differently if they had it to do it over again. Almost all of the responses contained a statement that they believed it was already a felony under federal law with a reference to the federal wire act. In my opinion they were misinformed about the wire act. If we keep writing and letting them know how we feel maybe the law will get changed. This site presents a good argument on its own as most of the messages are against the gambling bill. A good link to include in your messages is to the 100 latest comments http://www.washingtonvotes.org/RecentComments.aspx.

If there are any groups gathering together to "get back our freedom to choose", I would happily join! I'm looking for them!

You are right, this is all about money. If they were smart, they would make it legal and regulate and tax it. Have we learned nothing from Prohibition? I guess not!

This is similar feedback to what I heard when I met with one of my legislators. Please, *everyone*, meet with your representatives (you have 2) and your senator and tell them about this law. Ask them why poker should be legal in casinos and cardrooms, and a felony online. They *will not* be able to easily explain it. Their only reasonable reactions would be 'protect the children' and 'what about the addicted gamblers'. In response, you should say that regulating will certainly help these concerns, and besides, banning it for everyone is not the correct answer to these problems.

So in this state I can go to any 7-Eleven, buy a state sponsored lottery or scratch ticket, and should I win I could take the money and pay to have my girlfried get a legal abortion. That's all fine and dandy, but if I go on-line and play a $5 poker tournament one day a week then I could be convicted of a felony and serve prison time. Does this make even the least bit of sense to anybody? Negligent driving is not even a criminal offense in Washington, but someone driving negligently could easily injure or kill another motorist or pedestrian and yet that offense is fine only. Seems to me that the consequences of on-line gaming carries an unwarranted amount of punishment.

I stopped counting the spelling errors in your posting.

You need one of two items to gamble online: a credit account coupled to an offshore payment system (Netteller) or a checking account. If minors have either a Parent/Guardian should closely, very closely, be supervising and verifying their use. This is not a federal, or a state issue requiring a legislative solution but a parental issue requiring "parenting." The AGA, American Gaming Association, points out that only about 1% of gamblers are problem gamblers. Well, online sites DO NOT EXTEND CREDIT on site, have home page accessible deposit restriction systems, and most often have substantial delays in moving money into accounts. Most US major credit cards and PayPal block credit directly to gambling sites. The AGA profile of Interent gamblers suggests that a higher proportion of iGamblers are single, in their 20's-30's (younger) and have less time that the serious casino gambler. These people don't generally create family problems. Look for a "play money" game or "low-limit" table at a brick-and-mortar--doesn't exist. On-line gambling is NOT the glamorous life portrayed in casino and lottery ads. Its about playing in the kitchen, sitting out to help a child with his homework or playing while the kids sleep. Its about switching to a play game when you get tired.

What kind of nanny-state do we live in? Do the legislators really think they should be telling us how we are allowed to spend our money and get our entertainment? What is even worse is that they are telling us that it is fine to play poker in a casino, but a FELONY to play on the internet?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? How can anyone defend such an illogical, irrational position???????????

Again! Yet another bill making someone a Felon for our own protection. With all the potential felons running around out there, I'm surprised anyone is safe! Oh yes, a complete surprise that it was introduced by a member of the party "concerned" about individual liberties. I'm glad we have them looking out for us! I outgrew needing a babysitter at age 12.

Learn to enjoy the company of men...sorry man...its 6-10 in the state pen for u!

Trying to figure this out. So, Washington State is the only State that has voted on this bill and passed it or is this a national phenom. I'm not very political, please don't attack my ignorance, a little help would be fine. Thanx Concerned new guy

Day, I am still playing on-line. Come and get me, you jack-booted thug. My address is on the first line. Jimmy D.

Is the government going to be monitoring its citizen's website visits? What is this, Communinst China or the United States of America?????!!!????

Net Rights Advocates published a printed report that detailed the debate over data-retention periods for various ISPs. As part of the campaign against child porn, House Energy and Commerce Committee is threatening initiating legislation to require ISPs to retain their customers web-site histories for longer periods--up to one year. Basically, there are two records of your Internet visits: the one that you can schedule to delete (its still there, though, unless scrubbed) on a periodic basis on YOUR COMPUTER and the one your ISP keeps for resolving billing disputes. Without legislation, the retention periods are not uniform--AOL, 60days, Earthlink, 6 months, and Comcast 31 days going to 180 days on 9/1/2006. Guess what, nine months from now, a subpoena can uncover your feloneous gambling activity no matter how deligent you are with your deletion/scubbing of internet history on your home computer. Nervous yet? Net Rights Advocates' report suggested various technological solutions.

Net Rights Advocates published a printed report that detailed the debate over data-retention periods for various ISPs. As part of the campaign against child porn, House Energy and Commerce Committee is threatening initiating legislation to require ISPs to retain their customers web-site histories for longer periods--up to one year. Basically, there are two records of your Internet visits: the one that you can schedule to delete (its still there, though, unless scrubbed) on a periodic basis on YOUR COMPUTER and the one your ISP keeps for resolving billing disputes. Without legislation, the retention periods are not uniform--AOL, 60days, Earthlink, 6 months, and Comcast 31 days going to 180 days on 9/1/2006. Guess what, nine months from now, a subpoena can uncover your feloneous gambling activity no matter how deligent you are with your deletion/scubbing of internet history on your home computer. Nervous yet? Net Rights Advocates' report suggested various technological solutions.

why not ban ebay/ online shopping? the money there could be going towards drugs too... the legislator's reasoning to establish this law is flawed. yes there are no advantages to keeping online gambling around, but to what point and purpose is there to ban it? people who have addiction problems and are going to blow their money at a normal casino anyways. the state is not "saving" anyone here(little kids/adults), just pissing alot of people off. their main reason imo for banning online gambling is the money. the state probably figures they are losing too much money to online gambling and are trying to make it so the citizens will go to "taxable" casinos in state.

Rick Day- "As for players, gambling on the Internet, whether playing poker, slots or another gambling game, runs a risk of a felony conviction. However, there is not going to be an active campaign against regular players. If players’ names appear in an operator’s seized records, the Gambling Commission would likely send the player a warning letter, notifying them that betting online is a felony. If a player’s name reappears again, charges may be filed." My question is...how can you say you won't go after regular players and then say you will file charges?