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2009 House Bill 1819 (Reducing greenhouse gas emissions)

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1) Re: 2009 House Bill 1819 (Reducing greenhouse gas emissions) [by nperea on February 23, 2009]

 Thanks Kranky_99 - good to see someone else has some perspective.  we as a country are crying out for "bi-partisanship", but people are still voting down party lines and think that there is a "right way" and a "wrong way".  We all need to start thinking outside the box a bit.


Climate change issues are the biggest issues on the table right now in our state and it's a bit scary that our legislators are trying to use punishment as a method to get to a solution to clean air and oil independence. 


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2) Re: 2009 House Bill 1819 (Reducing greenhouse gas emissions) [by kranky_99 on February 23, 2009]






Dear: npere


Prior to reacting to your comments let me provide you with the
following disclosures.


1) I believe that the climate is changing, primarily due to
factors not influenced by humans.


2) I believe Cap & Trade is bad and do not support it.


3) I'm concerned about air quality.


4) I'm believe our dependence on fossil fuels is a great weakness
for our country.


5) I'm a redneck from Eastern Washington.



Having put my "cards" on the table I appreciate where I think your
coming from. Bottom line both sides of the Global Warming/Climate Change are
deeply entrenched in their respective camps and I don't see any great mass
conversion by either side. With I agree with you continuing to argue either
point seems to lead to, well, just more arguing!


I too agree with you the oil companies have the finances,
infrastructure and ability to be a part of the solution and we should consider
that as we formulate our opinions of the oil companies. In addition, I agree
with you that we should encourage those companies to look at alternative forms
of energy and as you said consider the POWER companies.


Specific to the Cap & Tax.....uh I mean Cap and Trade. The
systematic requirement for business to lower their greenhouse emissions over
time and having to pay a tax or pay for credits in a system where the
government is the "broker" of such trading transactions is bad juju.



  • Initial
    estimates by the Congressional Budget Office project that an economy-wide
    cap-and-trade
     program
    would generate at least
     $50 billion per year, but could reach up
    to$300 billion.

  • Greenhouse Gas Emissions will
    be a
     $2
    Trillion Dollar
     world
    wide Market
     Opportunity
     by 2012 according to the United
    Nations.

  • If the allocation of carbon
    credits (or distribution of carbon allowances) is based upon current
    carbon pollution – the
     Pacific Northwest
     (PNW) gets terribly
    disadvantaged because we are hydro based. This would mean in low snow
    pack years when our PNW utilities have to buy power on the open market
    from coal burning plants we would not only have to pay the higher market
    rate for the power but also pay the new carbon penalty or permit
    allowances and thus increasing the cost to PNW businesses unfairly.





  • CLICK
    HERE
     for
    a link to a chart illustrating that Washington State
    is the 2nd lowest emitter of CO2 per Megawatt Hours produced. 

  • The Department of Ecology would
    be a bigger player in the control it currently has over state-wide
    business and is pushing for this legislation. When asked to quantify Caps
    going forward, they were not able to yet supported the CAP & Trade
    legislation.

  • The Western Climate Initiative
    (WCI) is comprised of some western states and Canadian Providences who are
    either "participants" or "observers".
     CLICK
    HERE
     for
    the map on their website. Unfortunately, it's not current as of today due
    to the fact that a "participant" state within the initiative (unfortunately
    is wasn't Washington)
    has pulled out of the WCI, with another state currently considering the
    same.

  • While in Olympia last week to
    specifically speak with lawmakers face to face on this issue, repeatedly I
    heard grave concern over this legislation, with one lawmaker stating that
    this would be the worst piece of legislation every passed in the history
    of our State. While I realize someone can quote a lawmaker with a 180°
    view, it still makes me feel a bit better to quote him anyway.



Okay, I think I'm done for now...


 



 


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3) Re: 2009 House Bill 1819 (Reducing greenhouse gas emissions) [by nperea on February 10, 2009]

 5salive - I agree with you and you make sense to me, but please read this.  i posted this on the corresponding senate bill:



Environmentalists AND opponents to the Global Warming Theory PLEASE READ.  You are both at fault and it's ruining our state's livlihood..


Our state legislators really need to get some perspective on this green house gas reduction crusade they are on.  The question that needs to be asked of them is "what is the ultimate goal in trying to reduce green house gas emissions?"  It sounds over-simplified, but really it needs to be asked.  Even if they succeeded in ELIMINATING carbon emissions, how will we even know if it had any impact whatsoever?


Will we all of a sudden notice that it's cooler outside?  Will we see the polar ice caps start to grow again?  Will we be able to go outside and tell that the air is cleaner and now we can breathe?  Or will we simply be able to say that we feel really good about ourselves because we've done what we think is helping with global warming?  And if we ever arrive at this day in time, was it worth it to stifle business and economic development?


On the other side of the issue - all of you angry people out there still trying to argue that global warming is a myth or that people are crazy for believing in global warming or that it is not a man-made phenomenon - PLEASE STOP!  It's a pointless argument!  you very well could be right.  I might even agree with you, but the fact is that you will never prove it and you will never convince those that believe, that it's not true.  You will spend all your energy, time and money arguing over it.... trying to prove your point and in the end all you will be left with is MORE ANGER and less power.  While you are arguing over the existance of global warming, environmentalists are passing laws to get their way while completely ignoring the impacts they have on business and state spending.


Whether or not global warming is real or not - IS NOT THE POINT.  The solution - and the only solution - is to stop burning fossil fuels.  In doing so we will 1) get rid of the gas emissions that environmentalists want eliminated and 2) we will acheive independence of foriegn oil.  EVERYONE WINS. 


And to all of you who like to hate the oil companies.  You need to stop.  If any of us hope to ever become independent of oil, we are going to need the cooperation of the oil companies.  Yes, you heard me.  They are not just going to roll over and die because we don't want to use oil.  They are too big, rich and powerful to just walk away from the game.  We need to start thinking of them as ENERGY companies, not oil companies.  They have the infrastructure, the money and the resources to create alternative forms of energy and they will need to be the owners of new energy.  This might infuriate some of you, but it's the truth.  You can either spend your life hating them, or working with them on a solution.


we don't need laws FORCING business and individuals to reduce emissions and we don't need to argue over the validity of global warming.  We need cooperative solutions from the public and private sectors on how to effectively make our world operate on CLEAN and RENEWABLE energy.  We need solutions to effectively convert existing cars over to clean energy and not just brand new cars.  We need to create ways to convert the semi-trucks that transport our goods, over to clean energy as well as airplanes.  We need these things so that we don't have to wait until everyone out there can own a new Chevy Volt before we get clean air and oil independence.


I know some of you are saying it can't be done, but we need to stop saying "can't".  we put people on the moon, build retractable roofs on baseball stadiums so millionaires don't get wet while they play baseball, we build skyscrapers like they are lego kits, we have satelites in space that can see you sitting on your couch at home.... we CAN do this.




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